umbria / solana

English translation: faces south / north

13:29 Nov 20, 2014
Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Science - Geography / Primary school materiasl
Spanish term or phrase: umbria / solana
la ladera que recibe más radiación solar se llama solana y la que recibe menos se llama umbría.

I'm translating primary school geography material and these two terms come up. I am tempted to put "south-facing slope" and "north-facing slope" but I'm not sure it's accurate.
Gorka Hodson
Spain
Local time: 04:45
English translation:faces south / north
Explanation:
I think this question is a good illustration of how you have to think about translation functionally, at least in a case like this, rather than just translate the words.

Yes, if you need English words for "solana" and "umbría", you'll have to use "south-facing / north-facing slope" or "sunny / shady slope". We don't have any comparable terms to the Spanish ones.

But if you just replace one with the other, you'll end up with either this:

"The slope that receives more sunlight is called the south-facing slope and the one that receives less is called the north-facing slope."

or else this:

"The slope that receives more sunlight is called the sunny slope and the one that receives less is called the shady slope."

The second of these is frankly a bit ridiculous, isn't it? Talk about stating the obvious...

The first is more promising, but it doesn't really work in that form. It's the wrong way round. It's not a question of being "called" the south-facing slope; it "is" the south-facing slope.

The point is that the function of the Spanish sentence is to teach the children a pair of terms. We don't have such terms, so the point of the sentence is lost. We will have to use it to teach something else. Not that the sunny side is sunny, which is not teaching them anything, but that the sunny side faces south.

So this would work, up to a point:

"The slope that receives more sunlight is the south-facing slope and the one that receives less is the north-facing slope."

All the same, I don't think a teacher would actually say that to the class. I think he/she would say:

"The slope that faces south receives more sunlight, and the slope that faces north receives less."

That, I think, is beginning to be usable in class. It's a bit simple, but OK for young primary.
__________________________

A possible further step with older children might be to adapt this to teach a useful geographical term: aspect. A south-facing slope is said to have a southerly aspect. So you could extend it, by saying something like this:

"If a slope faces south, we say it has a southerly aspect, and if it faces north it has a northerly aspect. A slope with a southerly aspect receives more sunlight and a slope with a northerly aspect receives less."

This is going beyond translation, and is probably not a good idea in an exercise, but if it were a professional assignment I might be tempted to discuss this idea with the client.

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Note added at 1 hr (2014-11-20 14:37:54 GMT)
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All this, of course, is assuming we are in the northern hemisphere. Better make sure the book's not going to be used in Australia :)
Selected response from:

Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 04:45
Grading comment
Thank you, hit the nail on the head in every sense.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +3shady / sunny side | slope
MPGS
4 +1faces south / north
Charles Davis
3 +1north-facing slope/south-facing slope
Taña Dalglish


Discussion entries: 11





  

Answers


46 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
shady / sunny side | slope


Explanation:
:-)

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Note added at 49 mins (2014-11-20 14:18:43 GMT)
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Modern Planting On A Shady Slope Design Ideas, Pictures ...
www.houzz.com › All Rooms › Modern
551 planting on a shady slope Modern Home Design Photos. Search Tips: To search for all words in exact order, you can use quotes around the term. Example: ...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 52 mins (2014-11-20 14:21:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

How to Landscape on a Sunny Slope Location - Home Guides
homeguides.sfgate.com › ... › Home Decorating Styles
A mainly sunny slope needs specific plant species preferring full sunlight and some ... Combining too many plants from varying climates creates a mismatched ...
Sunny Slope Trees
www.sunnyslope.net/
Sunny Slope Trees - Wholesale Tree Nursery in Orange County. Home of Wholesale Trees | Our Wholesale Trees | About OC's Tree Nursery | OC's Tree ...
‎Tree Nursery Location - ‎OC's Tree Delivery Service - ‎About OC's Tree Nursery


MPGS
Local time: 04:45
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  bigedsenior: shady side/ sunny side. This would be appropriate for grade school students.
2 hrs
  -> thank you, biged. Best. :-)

agree  Muriel Vasconcellos: Best for primary school - plus, by introducing 'north' and 'south' you would be adding information that isn't in the text. This would be confusing for children.
7 hrs
  -> Thank you, Muriel. Best. :-)

neutral  Charles Davis: Even at primary school, telling children that the slope that receives more sunlight is called the sunny slope is really pointless, isn't it? // But words have a context, and if those we choose don't work in the context they're the wrong ones.
7 hrs
  -> Thx Charles. I'm not telling children anything. Just trying to answer a colleague question about two words. BTW, N/S, depending on context –e.g.: a building orientation, a swimming pool- and other circumstances may not indicate the most shady/sunny side

agree  Yvonne Gallagher: this is, literally, what is said after all. I do think south/north-facing is better however
2 days 1 hr
  -> Thank you, Gallagy. :-)
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41 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
north-facing slope/south-facing slope


Explanation:
I think you are correct, and found these reference to support your theory:

Mountain Walking in Southern Catalunya
books.google.com.jm/books?isbn=1849653585
Philip Freakley, ‎Vivien Freakley - 2011 - ‎Sports & Recreation
For the most part it crosses south-facing slopes or solana, which are terraced with dry stone walls and planted with venerable olive trees, although nature is now ...

Almeria Province - Andalucia.com
www.andalucia.com/environment/protect/sierrademaria.htm
Both of these grow on the south-facing rocky limestone slopes of the Sierra ... is the signposted route across the Sierra's south-facing slope (solana, or sunny).
Sendero La Umbría de Maimón is a 12km linear walk along a forestry track from Vélez Blanco to María on the Sierra de María's north-facing slope (umbría means shady). A contrasting walk is the signposted route across the Sierra's ***south-facing slope (solana, or sunny).***


Global Land Use Change: A Perspective from the Columbian ...
http://www.andalucia.com/environment/protect/sierrademaria.h...
Billie Lee Turner, ‎Consejo Superior de Investigaciones Científicas (Spain) - 1995 - ‎Human ecology
Micromigrations involved the winter use of well-drained uplands (cerrillo, altos) and south-facing slopes (solana, adret) followed by summer use of low-lying ...

http://books.google.com.jm/books?id=RMwH3vXgSokC&pg=PA300&lp...
see page 300 i.e. umbria > shady, i.e. north-facing slope

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2014-11-20 14:29:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Page 300 of the last link also lists "solano/a" as "sunny" (i.e. south-facing slope) or east wind......

Taña Dalglish
Jamaica
Local time: 22:45
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 24

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Muriel Vasconcellos: This is adding information that's not in the text - confusing for a textbook, especially for children.
7 hrs
  -> I disagree. Charles has already very eloquently explained it all! If you looked here, you would see exactly what it means: http://books.google.com.jm/books?id=RMwH3vXgSokC&pg=PA300&lp...

agree  Yvonne Gallagher: yes, why not... it's facing in the direction of. Coud be SE/SW/S etc
2 days 2 hrs
  -> Thanks Gallagy. Wheeeeeeew!
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
faces south / north


Explanation:
I think this question is a good illustration of how you have to think about translation functionally, at least in a case like this, rather than just translate the words.

Yes, if you need English words for "solana" and "umbría", you'll have to use "south-facing / north-facing slope" or "sunny / shady slope". We don't have any comparable terms to the Spanish ones.

But if you just replace one with the other, you'll end up with either this:

"The slope that receives more sunlight is called the south-facing slope and the one that receives less is called the north-facing slope."

or else this:

"The slope that receives more sunlight is called the sunny slope and the one that receives less is called the shady slope."

The second of these is frankly a bit ridiculous, isn't it? Talk about stating the obvious...

The first is more promising, but it doesn't really work in that form. It's the wrong way round. It's not a question of being "called" the south-facing slope; it "is" the south-facing slope.

The point is that the function of the Spanish sentence is to teach the children a pair of terms. We don't have such terms, so the point of the sentence is lost. We will have to use it to teach something else. Not that the sunny side is sunny, which is not teaching them anything, but that the sunny side faces south.

So this would work, up to a point:

"The slope that receives more sunlight is the south-facing slope and the one that receives less is the north-facing slope."

All the same, I don't think a teacher would actually say that to the class. I think he/she would say:

"The slope that faces south receives more sunlight, and the slope that faces north receives less."

That, I think, is beginning to be usable in class. It's a bit simple, but OK for young primary.
__________________________

A possible further step with older children might be to adapt this to teach a useful geographical term: aspect. A south-facing slope is said to have a southerly aspect. So you could extend it, by saying something like this:

"If a slope faces south, we say it has a southerly aspect, and if it faces north it has a northerly aspect. A slope with a southerly aspect receives more sunlight and a slope with a northerly aspect receives less."

This is going beyond translation, and is probably not a good idea in an exercise, but if it were a professional assignment I might be tempted to discuss this idea with the client.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2014-11-20 14:37:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

All this, of course, is assuming we are in the northern hemisphere. Better make sure the book's not going to be used in Australia :)

Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 04:45
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 40
Grading comment
Thank you, hit the nail on the head in every sense.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  kpdinicola: Nicely explained.
11 mins
  -> Thanks!

neutral  Muriel Vasconcellos: This is adding information that's not in the text - confusing for a textbook, especially for children.
7 hrs
  -> You have to. The information in the Sp text is just Sp terminology, which has no Eng equivalent. It must be replaced by something, otherwise you have, in effect: "the slope that receives sunlight is sunny". Are you seriously proposing to say that?
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