soberanos

English translation: (sovereign) citizens

12:58 May 19, 2020
Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Government / Politics
Spanish term or phrase: soberanos
In reference to 19th-century Argentine president Sarmiento;

No era secreta la admiración que sentía por Estados Unidos: en sus viajes a Norteamérica recorrió los establecimientos carcelarios y trajo maestras para “educar a los soberanos”.

educate the countrymen??

Thanks
Wendy Gosselin
Local time: 07:22
English translation:(sovereign) citizens
Explanation:
Una opción :)
Selected response from:

Camila Garay Adriel
Argentina
Local time: 07:22
Grading comment
thanks
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +3(sovereign) citizens
Camila Garay Adriel
4 +1leaders in my own country
Muriel Vasconcellos
3 +2authorities// in charge
Lydia De Jorge
3 +1his countrymen
Marcelo González
3 +1sovereign people
Chema Nieto Castañón
3commander prisoners
Juan Arturo Blackmore Zerón
Summary of reference entries provided
Some background fwiw
AllegroTrans

Discussion entries: 6





  

Answers


10 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
(sovereign) citizens


Explanation:
Una opción :)

Camila Garay Adriel
Argentina
Local time: 07:22
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
thanks

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  patinba
13 mins

neutral  AllegroTrans: Have you anything to support such a high confidence level?
38 mins

agree  philgoddard
55 mins

agree  EirTranslations
5 hrs
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48 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
sovereign people


Explanation:
Los soberanos alude aquí a los "individuos que conforman el pueblo soberano". Podría perfectamente sustituirse por "educar al pueblo soberano", si bien el original quiere personalizar un grado este concepto, aludiendo específicamente a los sujetos individuales que conforman ese pueblo soberano. No obstante, la acción de Sarmiento como presidente no será tanto educar a sus individuos (aunque sí indirectamente) como educar al pueblo en general, a todos ellos, lo que apoyaría el uso de "pueblo soberano" (sovereign people).

En fin, en caso de no respetar ese matiz del original en referencia a los individuos particulares (que conforman el pueblo soberano), podría aludirse a (the) sovereign people. A literal translation does not seem to work well in English ("educate the sovereigns"), as it sounds as if Sarmiento wanted to educate some kings. And there seems not to be an alternative word that conveys the original idea.

"The Sovereign Citizens" are sort of a sect in the US. And so, well, I guess (the) sovereign people must do.

Chema Nieto Castañón
Spain
Local time: 11:22
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in category: 16

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  philgoddard: There is no risk of confusion with a 21st-century American movement that most people have never heard of.
43 mins
  -> The good thing about sovereign people is that it conveys both the reference to pueblo soberano and to los individuos soberanos. Sorry about the freak note; I may be the only one to feel there is a difference between sovereign citizens and sovereign people

neutral  AllegroTrans: But just who are "sovereign people" in the context of prisons?
21 hrs
  -> Hi Allegro, those are two fully independent clauses actually (in spite of their proximity); he looked at the flowers and bought some milk. The teachers Sarmiento brought to Argentina had nothing to do with his visiting prisons or with educating prisoners.

agree  Marcelo González: yes, meaning *the sovereign people of his country* -- el pueblo soberano, como señalas también
2 days 11 hrs
  -> Muchas gracias, Marcelo, y sí, creo que tanto pueblo (the people) como pueblo soberano (the sovereign people) son lecturas ajustadas en este caso.
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
commander prisoners


Explanation:
file:///C:/Users/pc/Pictures/URIEL/Dialnet-CuandoLosPresosMandanControlInformalDentroDeLaCarc-5300448.pdf

Juan Arturo Blackmore Zerón
Mexico
Local time: 04:22
Works in field
Native speaker of: Spanish
PRO pts in category: 6

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  AllegroTrans: Prisoners are commanders? of what exactly?
2 hrs

neutral  Taña Dalglish: How is this relevant? http://bibliotecadigital.academia.cl/bitstream/handle/123456... (Articulo: Cuando los presos mandan: control informal dentro de la cárcel venezolana)
1 day 12 hrs
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
authorities// in charge


Explanation:
Those under his command with positions of authority. In this case I suppose he wanted to educate those in charge of prisons.

Lydia De Jorge
United States
Local time: 04:22
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 47

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Adrian MM.: the people (or: -----) in charge / who call the (gulp!) shots https://eng.proz.com/kudoz/spanish-to-english/music/5271181-...
3 hrs
  -> Thank you, Adrian. It's the only thing that makes sense in this context, IMO

agree  AllegroTrans: I agree that this ideas make sense. I cannot see what "sovereign people" can mean in the context of prisons
17 hrs
  -> Agreed. Thanks.
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8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
leaders in my own country


Explanation:
I don't think the "sovereign" concept needs to be taken literally.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2020-05-19 21:53:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

If the phrase is actually in quotation marks in your original, I don't think they apply with this translation. The quotes would imply a tinge of irony or sarcasm, suggesting that those at high levels think they already know the answers.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2020-05-19 21:55:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

If the phrase is in quotation marks in the original, they may suggest some irony - i.e., that the high-ups think they know all the answers. But I don't think quotes would work in the translation unless you used them only around "educate".

-- Unless you added them to highlight your question, in which case forget about what I just said.

Muriel Vasconcellos
United States
Local time: 02:22
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 456

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  AllegroTrans: This makes sense, "soverign people" does not
13 hrs
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2 days 12 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
his countrymen


Explanation:
following Wendy's suggestion, and Chema's discussion of 'pueblo soberano'

It seems to be just another (more formal) way to refer to his (fellow) countrymen.

Marcelo González
Vietnam
Local time: 17:22
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 215

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  AllegroTrans: Credible
22 hrs
  -> Yes, I think it works just fine: 'to educate his countrymen' :-) Thanks and cheers!
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Reference comments


46 mins
Reference: Some background fwiw

Reference information:
Domingo Faustino Sarmiento
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Domingo F. Sarmiento
Sarmiento.jpg
Sarmiento in 1874
President of Argentina
In office
October 12, 1868 – October 11, 1874
Vice President Adolfo Alsina
Preceded by Bartolomé Mitre
Succeeded by Nicolás Avellaneda
Minister of Foreign Affairs and Worship
In office
September 6, 1879 – October 9, 1879
President Nicolás Avellaneda
Preceded by Manuel Montes de Oca
Succeeded by Lucas González
Minister of the Interior
In office
August 29, 1879 – October 9, 1879
President Nicolás Avellaneda
Preceded by Bernardo de Irigoyen
Succeeded by Benjamín Zorrilla
Governor of San Juan
In office
January 3, 1862 – April 9, 1864
Preceded by Francisco Díaz
Succeeded by Santiago Lloveras
Personal details
Born February 15, 1811
San Juan, Argentina
Died September 11, 1888 (aged 77)
Asunción, Paraguay
Nationality Argentine
Political party Liberal
Spouse(s) Benita Martínez Pastoriza
(m. 1847–1857); separated
Domestic partner Aurelia Vélez Sársfield
(1857–1888); his death
Children Ana Faustina[a]
Domingo Fidel[b]
Signature
Military service
Allegiance Argentina
Branch/service Argentine Army emblem.svg Argentine Army
Years of service 1834–1863
Rank GD-EA.png Divisional General

Domingo Faustino Sarmiento (February 15, 1811 – September 11, 1888) was an Argentine activist, intellectual, writer, statesman and the seventh President of Argentina. His writing spanned a wide range of genres and topics, from journalism to autobiography, to political philosophy and history. He was a member of a group of intellectuals, known as the Generation of 1837, who had a great influence on nineteenth-century Argentina. He was particularly concerned with educational issues and was also an important influence on the region's literature.

Sarmiento grew up in a poor but politically active family that paved the way for much of his future accomplishments. Between 1843 and 1850 he was frequently in exile, and wrote in both Chile and in Argentina. His greatest literary achievement was Facundo, a critique of Juan Manuel de Rosas, that Sarmiento wrote while working for the newspaper El Progreso during his exile in Chile. The book brought him far more than just literary recognition; he expended his efforts and energy on the war against dictatorships, specifically that of Rosas, and contrasted enlightened Europe—a world where, in his eyes, democracy, social services, and intelligent thought were valued—with the barbarism of the gaucho and especially the caudillo, the ruthless strongmen of nineteenth-century Argentina.

While president of Argentina from 1868 to 1874, Sarmiento championed intelligent thought—including education for children and women—and democracy for Latin America. He also took advantage of the opportunity to modernize and develop train systems, a postal system, and a comprehensive education system. He spent many years in ministerial roles on the federal and state levels where he travelled abroad and examined other education systems.

Sarmiento died in Asunción, Paraguay, at the age of 77 from a heart attack. He was buried in Buenos Aires. Today, he is respected as a political innovator and writer. Miguel de Unamuno considered him among the greatest writers of Castilian prose.[1]

AllegroTrans
United Kingdom
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 115
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