se constituyeron . . . para presenciar . . .

English translation: appeared... to witness...

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Spanish term or phrase:se constituyeron . . . para presenciar . . .
English translation:appeared... to witness...
Entered by: ACCURATE77

19:40 Sep 29, 2006
Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law: Contract(s) / MARRIAGE ACT CERTIFICATE
Spanish term or phrase: se constituyeron . . . para presenciar . . .
SUBJECT: MARRIAGE ACT'S COPY CERTIFICATE

BACKGROUND PARAGRAPH IN SPANISH (THE SOURCE LANGUAGE):
. . . [Morella C. A., Jefe de la Oficina de Registro Civil de la parroquia San Jose, municipio Valencia, estado Carabobo, actuando por delegacion de la Priemera Autoridad Civil de dicho municipio, segun Resolucion
No.--- de fecha -- -- -- publicada en gazeta municipal # ------ Extraordinario de fecha -- -- --,] certifica que el ACTA DE MATRIMONIO que a continuacion se trancribe, es COPIA de su original que corre inserta bajo el ACTA No. ---. tomo ii, fecha 2006, Parroquia San Jose. Hoy, (fecha) siendo las (hora exacta), se constituyeron la ciudadana [Morella C. A.. jefe de la Oficina de Registro Civil de la parroquia San Jose, municipio Valencia, estado Carabobo, actuando por delegacion de la Primera Autoridad Civil de dicho Municipio, segun Resolucion No. ----- de fecha -- -- -- , publicada en Gazeta Municipal No. Extraordinario , de fecha -- -- -- ] con su secretaria , ciudadana N. M. Castellano en la mencionada oficina, para presenciar el matrimonio civil que tienen convenido celebrar los ciudadanos . . .

COMMENT AND CONSULTATION FROM TRANSLATOR ASKER:

Besides the best specific terms for the terms asked, I want to know from an experienced translator of this kind of legal documents for the U.S.A. Immigration and Naturalization Service, if it is correct to eliminate the repetion involved in the source language (Spanish) regarding the details surrounding the officer presiding the act of marriage. which I have enclosed in brackets here by simply replacing the second mentioned of the registrar's details with, "[the above-mentioned registar officer], Morella C. A. . . . and her secretary, the citizen N. M. Castellano, were present in the above-mentioned office to witness the civil marriage between citizens Y. L . . " and by explaining this abreviation with a footnote or endnote by the translator.

What I think about so much legalistic wordiness with repetition is much more difficult for the personnel of Immigration to read and understand quicky than the kind of certificates that I have done before for some translation agencies owned by notary publics, who just prefer a tabulated format that shows all the most important detailed data in table form or columns with sub-headings. What do you think and recomend?

Thank you in advance.
Your comments about this and any other suggestion regarding any particular term or sentence will be very welcome and appreciated.
ACCURATE77
Local time: 11:04
appeared... to witness...
Explanation:
Respecto de las repeticiones, mi opinión es que todo lo que podamos hacer para que le resulte más fácil de leer y de entender a la persona a quien está dirigida, tanto mejor. Sin embargo, en este texto tan legal y formal, la mantendría. Sólo una opinión.
Selected response from:

María Marta Semberoiz
Argentina
Local time: 13:04
Grading comment
Ladies/Gentlemen: Please, excuse me for taking some time to chose the best answer, but there are two reasons for my delay. One is that I have been very busy, and only until now I have some pause to comeback to the answers and make my selection. The second reason is that it is very difficult for me to choose because regarding the terms consulted, both respondents chose equally acceptable terms in English. So, I have taken the democratic way and go with the majority by popular demand, and you know who the winner is. However, my sense of fairness makes me recognize the good points made by my countryman, Mr. Rengifo, to whom I want to responde the following:

I agree with you totally regarding the terms "acta" and the correct translation of copia certificada como "certified copy." This last term is what I already had used on the title of the document to be translated that appears on the cover sheet. Likewise, I agree with you that, technically, the word acta in Spanish language in countries such as Colombia, it means a legislative act, such as "acta del congreso" regarding a new law. However, I have seen said Spanish word used in the same way that it was used on the certified copy of the marriage certificate from Venezuela as I quoted faithfully in its source language. Thank you very much Mr. Rengifo for your time and willingness to contribute to the answer.

On the other hand, I thank Ms. Maria Marta Semberoitz for your attention to my asking for your opinion about the format of such a document. However, the way in which the original certified copy of marriage was written with so many run-on sentences made decide for the way I translated another such document for U.S. Immigration which was not as tedious and confusing as this one. Therefore, using 3 clarifying notes, I avoided unnecessary repetion and used tables to show the subheading and detailed data for legibility, and to make easy to the eyes of the Immigration personnel in charge of reviewing such documents. I am sure that they appreciate such clearly presented format that will make their work easier to read, faster and more efficient to process.

I also want to thank all the other translators who made it easier for me to choose the winning answer by their votes in a democratic way. Otherwise, it would have made it impossible for me without feeling some guilt. Thank all!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +7appeared... to witness...
María Marta Semberoiz
3...gathered to witness
Giovanni Rengifo


  

Answers


18 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
...gathered to witness


Explanation:
-

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 mins (2006-09-29 19:59:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Creo que quieren decir "se reunieron para presenciar"...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 mins (2006-09-29 20:01:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Además "marriage act" sería "decreto sobre el matrimonio".
"partida de matrimonio" normalmente se traduce con "certificate of marriage"

Con "copy certificate" quieres decir "certified copy?".


Giovanni Rengifo
Colombia
Local time: 11:04
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in category: 251
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23 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +7
appeared... to witness...


Explanation:
Respecto de las repeticiones, mi opinión es que todo lo que podamos hacer para que le resulte más fácil de leer y de entender a la persona a quien está dirigida, tanto mejor. Sin embargo, en este texto tan legal y formal, la mantendría. Sólo una opinión.

María Marta Semberoiz
Argentina
Local time: 13:04
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in category: 7
Grading comment
Ladies/Gentlemen: Please, excuse me for taking some time to chose the best answer, but there are two reasons for my delay. One is that I have been very busy, and only until now I have some pause to comeback to the answers and make my selection. The second reason is that it is very difficult for me to choose because regarding the terms consulted, both respondents chose equally acceptable terms in English. So, I have taken the democratic way and go with the majority by popular demand, and you know who the winner is. However, my sense of fairness makes me recognize the good points made by my countryman, Mr. Rengifo, to whom I want to responde the following:

I agree with you totally regarding the terms "acta" and the correct translation of copia certificada como "certified copy." This last term is what I already had used on the title of the document to be translated that appears on the cover sheet. Likewise, I agree with you that, technically, the word acta in Spanish language in countries such as Colombia, it means a legislative act, such as "acta del congreso" regarding a new law. However, I have seen said Spanish word used in the same way that it was used on the certified copy of the marriage certificate from Venezuela as I quoted faithfully in its source language. Thank you very much Mr. Rengifo for your time and willingness to contribute to the answer.

On the other hand, I thank Ms. Maria Marta Semberoitz for your attention to my asking for your opinion about the format of such a document. However, the way in which the original certified copy of marriage was written with so many run-on sentences made decide for the way I translated another such document for U.S. Immigration which was not as tedious and confusing as this one. Therefore, using 3 clarifying notes, I avoided unnecessary repetion and used tables to show the subheading and detailed data for legibility, and to make easy to the eyes of the Immigration personnel in charge of reviewing such documents. I am sure that they appreciate such clearly presented format that will make their work easier to read, faster and more efficient to process.

I also want to thank all the other translators who made it easier for me to choose the winning answer by their votes in a democratic way. Otherwise, it would have made it impossible for me without feeling some guilt. Thank all!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Manuel Aburto: I absolutely agree with you. It is one of the usual legal expression for said term.
6 mins
  -> Muchas gracias, Manuel!

agree  claudia bagnardi: right you are! Saludos. Claudia
20 mins
  -> Muchas gracias! Saludos, compatriota! :)

agree  Henry Hinds
59 mins
  -> Gracias, HH!! MM

agree  Patrice
1 hr
  -> Gracias, Patricia!

agree  Lisa Mann
1 hr
  -> Gracias, Lisa!

agree  MikeGarcia: Thou speakest the truth, MMS.-
18 hrs
  -> Thank thee, MGU!! :)

agree  Victoria Frazier
19 hrs
  -> ¡Muchas gracias, Victoria!
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