no susceptibles de apreciación pecuniaria

English translation: non-monetary (legal matters/cases)

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Spanish term or phrase:no susceptibles de apreciación pecuniaria
English translation:non-monetary (legal matters/cases)

05:07 Jul 7, 2018
    The asker opted for community grading. The question was closed on 2018-07-10 22:54:07 based on peer agreement (or, if there were too few peer comments, asker preference.)


Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general)
Spanish term or phrase: no susceptibles de apreciación pecuniaria
"Honorarios mínimos en asuntos judiciales no susceptibles de apreciación pecuniaria"

This originates from an Argentine statute describing the situation of legal fees by attorneys and solicitors. Many references say this is translated as "for good and valuable consideration," but that doesn't seem to fit this context. Following this statement is a list of actions (divorce, adoption, etc.) with the minimum legal fees that correspond.
Joshua Farley
United States
Local time: 19:49
non-monetary (legal matters/cases)
Explanation:
With the greatest respect, I do not agree that "apreciación pecuniaria" means valuable consideration here, and I think you were right in the first place: it doesn't fit this context. In fact I don't know what it means to speak of lawyers' fees not being subject to valuable consideration. "Valuable consideration" is a concept in contract law; it basically means payment for services rendered. Even if you see the lawyer-client relationship as contractual, the idea of the lawyer's fees being subject to valuable consideration is surely meaningless; those fees ARE valuable consideration for legal services rendered.

But in any case, "no susceptibles de apreciación pecuniaria" doesn't refer to "honorarios", the fees, but to "asuntos judiciales", the legal matters or types of cases in which those fees are paid. Whatever it means, it's a property of certain types of legal proceeding, the types listed: divorce, adoption, etc., not a property of the associated lawyers' fees.

So what does it mean? The following document is a helpful start:

"El juicio de cancelación de hipoteca no es susceptible de apreciación pecuniaria a los fines regulatorios porque con él sólo se pretende el levantamiento del gravamen hipotecario y no el cuestionamiento a la deuda garantizada. No existe pretensión de ningún beneficio patrimonial de una parte que se traslade a la otra. La regulación de honorarios debe efectuarse entonces teniendo en cuenta las disposiciones contenidas en los artículos 4 y 5 del Arancel."
http://www.jusonline.gov.ar/Jurisprudencia/textos.asp?id=947...

In other words, a case that is "no susceptible de apreciación pecuniaria" is one in which there is no monetary benefit to the winning party: the judgment doesn't involve any "beneficio patrimonial", any payment. In such cases, the lawyer gets a minimum set fee.

So what happens in the other kind of cases, those that are "susceptibles de apreciación pecuniaria", that is, those in which the winning party obtains a monetary benefit from the judgment? In that case, the lawyer gets a percentage of that monetary benefit, the "cuantía" or "monto" of the case. This is stated in the relevant law:

"En los procesos susceptibles de apreciación pecuniaria los honorarios por la defensa de cada una de las partes serán fijados según la cuantía de los mismos [i.e., of procesos of this kind], de acuerdo con la siguiente escala:

Escala..............................%
Hasta 15 UMA..................del 22% al 33%
De 16 UMA a 45 UMA.........del 20% al 26%
De 46 UMA a 90 UMA.........del 18% al 24%
De 91 UMA a 150 UMA.......del 17% al 22%
De 151 UMA a 450 UMA......del 15% al 20%
De 451 UMA a 750 UMA......del 13% al 17%
De 751 UMA en adelante.....del 12% al 15%
[...]
En el caso de los auxiliares de la Justicia, el monto de los honorarios a regular no podrá ser inferior al cinco por ciento (5%) ni superior al diez por ciento (10%) del monto del proceso."
https://ar.vlex.com/vid/ley-27-423-700000437?_ga=2.144474741...

So both lawyers and "auxiliares" get a percentage of the "monto del proceso", and that is defined here:

"El art. 19 de la ley 21.839 establece que se considerará monto del proceso la suma que resultare de la sentencia o transacción [...]"
https://www.pjn.gov.ar/Publicaciones/00002/00028663.Pdf

It's the amount awarded by the judgment: the amount the winning party gets. That, of course, doesn't apply to cases like divorce or adoption, where neither part gets a monetary award.

So I would suggest you might translate "asuntos judiciales no susceptibles de apreciación pecuniaria" as "non-monetary legal matters" or "cases". There may be a more suitable term, but I think it expresses the meaning.

"For this reason, we agree that a standard fee for all non-monetary cases is a sensible proposition."
https://consult.justice.gov.uk/digital-communications/court-...
Selected response from:

Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 01:49
Grading comment
This is excellent and I appreciate your detailed answer very much! This term comes up numerous times in this document and your answer cleared up a lot of doubts I had. Thank you kindly!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +4non-monetary (legal matters/cases)
Charles Davis
4unlikely to increase over time
Francois Boye
4flat rate
Robin Levey
3[minimum fees] not subject to valuable consideration
lorenab23


Discussion entries: 10





  

Answers


9 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
unlikely to increase over time


Explanation:
This is how it would be expressed in English

Francois Boye
United States
Local time: 19:49
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 137
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13 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
[minimum fees] not subject to valuable consideration


Explanation:
Please see discussion

lorenab23
United States
Local time: 16:49
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in category: 172
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17 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +4
non-monetary (legal matters/cases)


Explanation:
With the greatest respect, I do not agree that "apreciación pecuniaria" means valuable consideration here, and I think you were right in the first place: it doesn't fit this context. In fact I don't know what it means to speak of lawyers' fees not being subject to valuable consideration. "Valuable consideration" is a concept in contract law; it basically means payment for services rendered. Even if you see the lawyer-client relationship as contractual, the idea of the lawyer's fees being subject to valuable consideration is surely meaningless; those fees ARE valuable consideration for legal services rendered.

But in any case, "no susceptibles de apreciación pecuniaria" doesn't refer to "honorarios", the fees, but to "asuntos judiciales", the legal matters or types of cases in which those fees are paid. Whatever it means, it's a property of certain types of legal proceeding, the types listed: divorce, adoption, etc., not a property of the associated lawyers' fees.

So what does it mean? The following document is a helpful start:

"El juicio de cancelación de hipoteca no es susceptible de apreciación pecuniaria a los fines regulatorios porque con él sólo se pretende el levantamiento del gravamen hipotecario y no el cuestionamiento a la deuda garantizada. No existe pretensión de ningún beneficio patrimonial de una parte que se traslade a la otra. La regulación de honorarios debe efectuarse entonces teniendo en cuenta las disposiciones contenidas en los artículos 4 y 5 del Arancel."
http://www.jusonline.gov.ar/Jurisprudencia/textos.asp?id=947...

In other words, a case that is "no susceptible de apreciación pecuniaria" is one in which there is no monetary benefit to the winning party: the judgment doesn't involve any "beneficio patrimonial", any payment. In such cases, the lawyer gets a minimum set fee.

So what happens in the other kind of cases, those that are "susceptibles de apreciación pecuniaria", that is, those in which the winning party obtains a monetary benefit from the judgment? In that case, the lawyer gets a percentage of that monetary benefit, the "cuantía" or "monto" of the case. This is stated in the relevant law:

"En los procesos susceptibles de apreciación pecuniaria los honorarios por la defensa de cada una de las partes serán fijados según la cuantía de los mismos [i.e., of procesos of this kind], de acuerdo con la siguiente escala:

Escala..............................%
Hasta 15 UMA..................del 22% al 33%
De 16 UMA a 45 UMA.........del 20% al 26%
De 46 UMA a 90 UMA.........del 18% al 24%
De 91 UMA a 150 UMA.......del 17% al 22%
De 151 UMA a 450 UMA......del 15% al 20%
De 451 UMA a 750 UMA......del 13% al 17%
De 751 UMA en adelante.....del 12% al 15%
[...]
En el caso de los auxiliares de la Justicia, el monto de los honorarios a regular no podrá ser inferior al cinco por ciento (5%) ni superior al diez por ciento (10%) del monto del proceso."
https://ar.vlex.com/vid/ley-27-423-700000437?_ga=2.144474741...

So both lawyers and "auxiliares" get a percentage of the "monto del proceso", and that is defined here:

"El art. 19 de la ley 21.839 establece que se considerará monto del proceso la suma que resultare de la sentencia o transacción [...]"
https://www.pjn.gov.ar/Publicaciones/00002/00028663.Pdf

It's the amount awarded by the judgment: the amount the winning party gets. That, of course, doesn't apply to cases like divorce or adoption, where neither part gets a monetary award.

So I would suggest you might translate "asuntos judiciales no susceptibles de apreciación pecuniaria" as "non-monetary legal matters" or "cases". There may be a more suitable term, but I think it expresses the meaning.

"For this reason, we agree that a standard fee for all non-monetary cases is a sensible proposition."
https://consult.justice.gov.uk/digital-communications/court-...

Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 01:49
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 1327
Grading comment
This is excellent and I appreciate your detailed answer very much! This term comes up numerous times in this document and your answer cleared up a lot of doubts I had. Thank you kindly!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Chema Nieto Castañón: Aunque en ámbito patrimonial se aludiría con la expresión "no susceptible de apreciación pecuniaria" a not subject to monetary valuation, en el contexto dado parece referirse, efectivamente, a (fees for) non-monetary claims. Saludos!
2 hrs
  -> Muchas gracias, Chema :-)

neutral  Robin Levey: I think you're reading too much into this - and ending up with a translation that would make little sense in most (legal) cases.
2 hrs
  -> Well, my main purpose was to establish what it means, which I believe I have. Without that, there's no hope of a correct translation. I think "non-monetary" is readily understood.

agree  Manuel Cedeño Berrueta
14 hrs
  -> Many thanks, Manuel :-)

agree  patinba: I think it is the equivalent of "documento sin cuantía" in Spain, that is to say "document for no amount"
16 hrs
  -> Thanks, Pat :-) Yes, I think that's the idea.

agree  Robert Carter: Exactly, covered all points. As Pat says, equivalent to "sin cuantía", although I'd call that a document containing a transaction for no monetary value https://bit.ly/2KEFa9v
17 hrs
  -> Many thanks, Robert!
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19 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
flat rate


Explanation:
honorarios mínimos en asuntos judiciales no susceptibles de apreciación pecuniaria
-->
flat rate fees on legal matters not dependent on value of the cause

My suggested translation will depend on the target readership (UK/US/ZA/AU/other...), but I'm pretty sure it refers to "flat rate" fees for "standard" legal jobs where the fee charged/chargeable is not dependent on the "value" (cuantía in Spanish (CL)) of the case but instead depends on a fixed (per job) 'arancel (again, in CL)'.

IOW (for example only...), there's no "mark-up" on the fee for presenting a summons just because the property that's being embargoed is a USD 10 million mansion as compared to a worthless shack out in the prairie.

Robin Levey
Chile
Local time: 21:49
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 461

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Charles Davis: I don't think this fully covers it. It's not strictly a flat rate but a minimum, but in any case "not dependent on the value" doesn't express the fact that the criterion for which fee scale is applied is whether the case has a "value" at all.
5 hrs
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