verdad verdadera

14:13 Jul 26, 2018
This question was closed without grading. Reason: Other

Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general) / English of lawyers/procedural law
Spanish term or phrase: verdad verdadera
Good Thursday everyone.

How do you express this concept in English?
“verdad verdadera” (also called “verdad material”) as opposed to “verdad procesal”, as explained here:

Una de las discusiones más recurrentes en el mundo jurídico es cuando hablamos del debido proceso y de su esencia jurídica: “la verdad”. La verdad de un hecho o suceso jurídico es el desarrollo de un comportamiento (conducta) humano en un momento determinado y la cual como actuación del hombre que ha trasgredido un derecho ajeno particular, o, colectivo debe establecerse mediante un proceso reglado que busca la paz social la solución justa al litigio a través de un tercero (el Juez). Sin embargo, la **verdad procesal** que da fundamento a las soluciones en el campo judicial no se identifica la más de las veces con la **verdad material** de los hechos, aunque esté determinada por ellos y sustentada y amparada en las distintas formas probatorias. Esa verdad, que busca una verdadera justicia no debe corresponder a las vivencias emotivas ni intelectuales de los protagonistas, ni a las del Juez y debe fundarse, en cimientos ajenos a las emociones que en palabras del
(…)
En el proceso los hechos deben vaciarse en procedimientos y formas preestablecidas, en medios de prueba5 oportunos, pertinentes y legales que nos conduzcan a la verdad.
Luego, la verdad que es probada con los hechos, es el fundamento de las valoraciones jurídicas que deben hacerse por el operador judicial. Sin ellos, reconvertidos en pruebas, no se podrá justificar una decisión judicial. Generalmente la verdad histórica es distinta a la verdad procesal; y estas dos, a la verdad verdadera (verdad material).
(http://www.inej.edu.ni/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/garantias-...
Many thanks in advance!
Manuel Cedeño Berrueta
Local time: 09:47


Summary of answers provided
4 +2actual truth
Sandro Tomasi
4 +1substantive truth
AllegroTrans
4the true truth (or the real truth)
Ellen Kraus
2(the) whole truth
neilmac


Discussion entries: 14





  

Answers


2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
actual truth


Explanation:
In initial lawyer-client interviews, it is quite common for lawyers to say, “first I’m going to read you the charges and tell you what they’re saying, and then I want you to tell me what actually happened” (or “what really happened”).

Sandro Tomasi
Local time: 09:47
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in category: 468

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  JohnMcDove: Vero nihil verius. Nothing is truer than truth. ;-)
2 mins
  -> Loquens iustitiam adnuntians recta, frater. You speak the truth, brother. (Or something close to that.) Thank you, John.

agree  Mónica Hanlan
19 hrs
  -> Thank you, Mónica.
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
the true truth (or the real truth)


Explanation:
that´s what I found

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Note added at 2 Stunden (2018-07-26 16:56:02 GMT)
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in addition, I´ve come across "the absolute truth" and the "actual truth.

Bueno, suena como verdad porque es racional ¿verdad? Pero, ¿sabes? la "verdad verdadera", es que tú... odias la Navidad, entonces lo que haces es desparramar todos los hechos y se los arruinas a todos los demás.
Well, it sounds like the truth cause it's so rational, right, but, you know, the true truth is that you just... you hate Christmas, so you just spout out all these facts and you ruin it for everyone else.


Ellen Kraus
Austria
Local time: 15:47
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 65

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  AllegroTrans: These don't work in legal parlance, and "true truth" is utter doublespeak; as for your "explanation" (which sounds like street talk) what has this to do with procedural law??
1 hr
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20 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
(the) whole truth


Explanation:
As in sworn testimony, perhaps?

Low confidence, FWIW.


Example sentence(s):
  • ...the evidence I shall give shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sworn_testimony
neilmac
Spain
Local time: 15:47
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 538

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  AllegroTrans: Problem is we are not dealing with the term as used in the witness oath
4 hrs
  -> That's why I added "FWIW"....
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6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
substantive truth


Explanation:
I believe this is the term applied in legal theory and caselaw.

Formal Legal Truth and Substantive Truth in Judicial Fact-Finding - jstor
https://www.jstor.org/stable/3505142

by RS Summers - ‎1999 - ‎Cited by 57 - ‎Related articles
ABSTRACT. Truth is a fundamental objective of adjudicative processes; ideally,. 'substantive' as distinct from 'formal legal' truth. But problems of evidence, for.

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Note added at 6 hrs (2018-07-26 20:14:12 GMT)
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The Trial on Trial: Truth and due process
https://books.google.co.uk/books?isbn=1841134422
Antony Duff, ‎Lindsay Farmer, ‎Sandra Marshall - 2004 - ‎Law
Summers, for example, distinguishes between the actual truth, which he calls the 'substantive truth', and the 'formal legal truth', which is 'whatever is found as ...

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Note added at 1 day 20 hrs (2018-07-28 10:55:47 GMT)
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Scores of examples on the web:

Prospective Analysis and Establishing Substantive Truth in Review of ...
https://dspace.library.uu.nl/handle/1874/301860

by A Gerbrandy - ‎2014 - ‎Related articles
Prospective Analysis and Establishing Substantive Truth in Review of Merger Decisions in Court ... (2014) Netherlands Administrative Law Library, volume 2014.
[DOC]Download [34.85 KB]
https://wp.bridgewater.edu/.../Final-Draft-Epistemology-and-...

Assessing the Use of Justified True Belief by the United States Judicial System and the Epistemological Disparity between Substantive Truth and Legal Verdicts.
The Theory and Development of Common-Law Actions
https://books.google.co.uk/books?isbn=1893122255
Thomas A. Street - 1999 - ‎Law
Nor does this principle impeach the idea elsewhere brought out, that in the development of early law, form is the chief means by which substantive truth is first ...
truth and impartiality in criminal process - HeinOnline
heinonline.org/hol-cgi-bin/get_pdf.cgi?handle=hein.journals/jcontemlaw7...5

by BM Zupancic - ‎1982 - ‎Cited by 16 - ‎Related articles
If the essence of substantive criminal law lies in the criteria of guilt and innocence ...... clarative since procedure does not affect the substantive truth. In the latter

AllegroTrans
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:47
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 1369

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Sandro Tomasi: Interesting. Summers uses the term, others quote him. In your second link, the authors say, “actual truth, which he [Summers] calls the ‘substantive truth’”. A quick search yielded the term in relation to deflationism.
18 hrs
  -> Thanks. I have certainly heard this term used by lawyers.
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