artilleros expertos

English translation: artillery experts/with military precision

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

Spanish term or phrase:	artilleros expertos
English translation:	artillery experts/with military precision
Entered by:	JaneTranslates

05:49 Jul 9, 2011

Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Military / Defense

Spanish term or phrase: artilleros expertos

Hello!

I'm translating an inspirational autobiography. The author has quadriplegia, but does have some movement in her arms. In this passage she is telling about an incident during her rehab a few months after her accident.

Lo mejor de todo ocurrió en la sesión de terapia de la tarde. Los terapeutas entraron con cubos repletos de nieve. Como **artilleros expertos** nos prepararon bolas de nieve y nos instaron a que nos las tiráramos unos a otros.

I have two possible translations in mind for "artilleros expertos": "expert artillerymen" and "ordnance specialists." One of my translation maxims is, "If the literal translation works, use it." But the problem with "artillerymen" is that some of the therapists were women. On the other hand, the problem with "ordnance specialists" is that many readers won't know the word "ordnance"--I've already been called on "misspelling 'ordinance'" when my client's adviser read my draft translation.

A retired U.S. Navy friend of mine said that she was never bothered by terms like "artillerymen," and that such terms were always taken inclusively, like "guys." But I'm translating for the general public, not military personnel.

Any ideas? Thanks in advance!

Puerto Rican Spanish to U.S. English, please.

JaneTranslates KudoZ activity Questions: 152 (none open) (4 closed without grading) Answers: 505 Puerto Rico
Local time: 05:11

with military precision

Explanation:
I think I would not go for the straight translation

Like soldiers on manoeuvres (UK spelling)

Selected response from:

polyglot45

Grading comment

This one's a perfect fit. Thanks so much, polyglot!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

3 +5

with military precision

polyglot45

4 +1

artillery experts

David Ronder

crack artillery gunners

Pablo Julián Davis

expert tossers / pitchers / hurlers

paragonc

expert artillerymen

eski

expert gunners

Charles Davis

Answers

1 hr confidence:

peer agreement (net): +5

with military precision

Explanation:
I think I would not go for the straight translation

Like soldiers on manoeuvres (UK spelling)

polyglot45
Native speaker of:

English,

French
PRO pts in category: 4

Grading comment

This one's a perfect fit. Thanks so much, polyglot!

1 hr confidence:

crack artillery gunners

Explanation:
Como la frase original utiliza un símil en tono humorístico y liviano, yo trataría de transmitir algo de ese tono en la traducción. De ahí mi modesta sugerencia, 'crack artillery gunners'. Como sin duda ya sabe, el adjetivo 'crack' quiere decir muy experto, brillante (se emplea el anglicismo 'crac' bastante en español, en este mismo sentido). Alternativas: 'battle-tested artillery veterans', 'expert marksmen' o bien 'expert gunners' como menciona el colega Charles. ¡Suerte Jane, y ojalá la traducción de esta obra le transmita algo de inspiración!

Example sentence(s):

Like crack artillery gunners, they readied the snowballs for us, urging us to hurl them at one another.

Pablo Julián Davis
Local time: 04:11
Native speaker of:

Spanish,

English

Notes to answerer

Asker: I like "crack"! This isn't what I ended up using, but it's a great idea. Thanks, Pablo Julián.

4 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

artillery experts

Explanation:
Why not avoid the gender issue by simply changing the parts of speech around? I don't think it significantly alters the meaning, and you have a nice near-literal translation that conveys the sense neatly.

David Ronder
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:11
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 8

Notes to answerer

Asker: So simple, so obvious--but I didn't see it. I ended up using another suggestion that fit very nicely into my sentence, but this was definitely my second choice. Thank you for a great idea, David.

11 hrs confidence:

expert tossers / pitchers / hurlers

Explanation:
I don't think military terms should be used, as they're talking about snowballs.

paragonc
Spain
Local time: 11:11
Native speaker of:

English,

Spanish

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thanks, paragonbicult. (I love your moniker!) However, the fact is that the author *did* choose to use a military term. Besides, the therapists were not tossing/pitching/hurling the snowballs; they were actually "passing the ammunition." They made the snowballs and passed them to the patients; the patients then tossed them at each other.

1 hr confidence:

expert gunners

Explanation:
Medium confidence, because I'm not sure whether general readers in the US will interpret this in its military sense or just take it to mean people who are good at shooting guns, and particularly hunting. I see your problems with "artillerymen" and "ordnance specialists", though I think they're both good versions. "Expert gunners" is not sexist and doesn't involve any unfamiliar words.

Historically the term "gunner" meant an artillery soldier in the US, though it is perhaps more familiar in that precise sense in British English, where it is still a rank in the army (indeed the Royal Artillery are known as the Gunners). It is defined in the Cambridge Dictionary of American English as "a soldier or sailor in the armed forces who helps to operate a large gun" (http://dictionaries.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=gun*1 0&... ).

The term "expert gunner" was in fact an artillery rank in the Second World War:

"By 1930 the older titles of marksman, sharpshooter and expert were still used for rifles, pistols, machine rifles, and automatic rifles, but for most other weapons such as howitzers, chemical mortars, machine guns and aerial gunners, the army titled the men second class gunners, first class gunners and expert gunners."
William K. Emerson, Marksmanship in the U.S. Army, p. 62
http://books.google.es/books?id=OdHtJ9-jCsIC&pg=PA62&lpg=PA6...

Other references to "expert gunner" in US sources seem to be nearly all military.

There's also "master gunner", a term used in the US Marine Corps as well as in Great Britain, but could perhaps be considered sexist by some:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_Gunner

Anyway, it's one for you to consider. Good luck!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 days15 hrs (2011-07-12 21:48:37 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

My pleasure, Jane. I had the same doubts myself. I think "with military precision" is an excellent answer, by the way.

Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 11:11
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 52

Notes to answerer

Asker: Well, I learned something today! I didn't know what a gunner is. Unfortunately, I'm guessing this book's readers won't know, either, as with my "ordnance specialists" that I had to give up (with great reluctance). Thank you for the information and the interesting references, Charles, and for your time and interest. I'll bear this in mind for use in other contexts!

15 hrs confidence:

expert artillerymen

Explanation:
expert artillerymen:

I don't think the general public will have any problem understanding, Jane:
In the of artillery and gun defense the student officers will be as thoroughly trained as expert artillerymen ln train them in all important subjects _of ...
query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res...
Popular Mechanics - Feb 1944 - Google Books ResultVol. 81, No. 2 - 248 pages - Magazine
He had heard that Japs are expert artillerymen. "If they can see you . . . they can hit you" he'd been told, and on this flat plain he was reasonably ...
books.google.com/books?id=n90DAAAAMBAJ... - More book results »
8January with Jackson6 Jul 2011 – expert artillerymen, many from the navy, and of course the pirates, who affected a rudimentary uni- form by wearing red shirts. ...
www.scribd.com/doc/59480639/25/January-with-Jackson - Cached
World War 1 - Google Books ResultTimothy C. Dowling - 2006 - History - 355 pages
It was especially affirmed that the Negro did not possess the mathematical ability necessary to qualify as an expert artillery officer. ...
books.google.com/books?isbn=1851095659...
Fallschirmjäger Artillery Battery - Hobby"Expert artillery support enhances the already substantial capabilities of the Fallschirmjäger, making accomplishing their missions, whether it be defensive ...
www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=53&art_id=2663 - Cached
Walkerloo Toy SoldiersNapoleon's 'Grand Batterie' of more than 80 cannons with expert artillery men fired over their heads smashing the Allies with their cannon balls. ...
www.walkerloo.com/index.cfm?page=mixedboxes - Cached

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 days17 hrs (2011-07-12 23:11:36 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

No problem, Jane;
Saludos from Acapulco,
eski ;))

eski
Mexico
Local time: 03:11
Native speaker of:

English,

Spanish

Notes to answerer

Asker: I agree, eski, and I was very tempted to go ahead and use "artillerymen," but I've been excoriated a couple of times for using "sexist" terms, and you know--once burned, twice shy. Thanks for your suggestion.

Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.

Return to KudoZ list

KudoZ™ translation help

The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.

See also:

ProZ.com term search

Search millions of term translations

artilleros expertos

English translation: artillery experts/with military precision

Answers

KudoZ™ translation help

Your current localization setting

Select a language

artilleros expertos

English translation: artillery experts/with military precision

Answers

KudoZ™ translation help

You have native languages that can be verified

Your current localization setting

Select a language