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Vé, humíllate, y asegúrate de tu amigo.

English translation: Go, humble thyself, and urge thy neighbour.

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Spanish term or phrase:Vé, humíllate, y asegúrate de tu amigo.
English translation:Go, humble thyself, and urge thy neighbour.
Entered by: Wenjer Leuschel (X)

01:28 Jul 29, 2007
Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature / Proverbs
Spanish term or phrase: Vé, humíllate, y asegúrate de tu amigo.
He leído la Santa Biblia en chino desde mi juventud y a veces no entiendo unas palabras. Cuando me occurió así creí que me falta la experiencia para entender lo que han dicho. Pero tengo hace tiempo dudas sobre la traducción de la Biblia. Podrían equivocarse los traducctores?

Anoche leí los Proverbios otra vez y encontró unas palabras que no me parecen. Ají un ejemplo de Proverbios:

6:3 Haz esto ahora, hijo mío, y líbrate, ya que has caído en la mano de tu prójimo; vé, humíllate, y asegúrate de tu amigo.

Now, I read the Chinese, German and the English translations at the same time and found out something curious: I could not understand the last part of the sentence in Chinese. The English translation goes like this:

6:3 Do this, my son, and make yourself free, because you have come into the power of your neighbor; go without waiting, and make a strong request to your neighbor.

My question is: Does the Spanish translation of "vé, humíllate, y asegúrate de tu amigo" make exactly the same sense as the English translation of "go without waiting, and make a strong request to your neighbor"? If not, how would you, my dear colleagues, translate that part of the sentence into English?

Many thanks in advance!
Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 21:35
Go, humble thyself, and urge thy neighbour.
Explanation:
I have done a little research into Proverb 6 and this is what I have found.Two sources from the Hebrew Bible translate the verse as "Go, humble thyself, and urge thy neighbour."
The problem is understanding the overall meaning of Proverb 6, which is somewhat controversial, so I looked for some Bible Criticism and voilá, please look at this webpage http://www.crivoice.org/biblestudy/bbproverbs4.html
The bottom line is: you come into your neighbour's power when you have promised surety for his debts.When this has happened, urgently hurry to him and beg, plead or forcefully persuade him, but do anything to extract yourself from such an obligation.The compassionate son of Israel in this situation is likened to a hunted gazelle or bird. I hope this is what you were looking for!

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Note added at 21 hrs (2007-07-29 22:38:52 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Wenjer: Here is a link to Hebrew Bible, Proverb 6 (with parallel English translation)
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt2806.htm

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 hrs (2007-07-29 23:14:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The second link: http://www.breslov.com/bible/Proverbs6.htm
Selected response from:

Marian Martin
Spain
Local time: 15:35
Grading comment
Thank you very much! This is exactly what I was looking for. This makes the accordance between "asegúrate de tu amigo" and "make a strong request to your neighbour."
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +1Go forth, insist and pester/wear out your neighbour
Marian Martin
4 +1Go forth, swallow your pride and insist upon thy neighbour.
Alexander Holmes
4Go, humble thyself, and urge thy neighbour.
Marian Martin
3 +1Go, humble yourself, and make sure of your friend/his friendship
Anne Smith Campbell
4Go forth, swallow your pride and retain your friendship.
Alexander Holmes


Discussion entries: 7





  

Answers


7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Go forth, swallow your pride and retain your friendship.


Explanation:
I'm not a Bible person in any way or form, but I feel the original English translation is lacklustre to say the least. If indeed it does mean what I think it does, then "swallow your pride" makes a lot more sense than the awkward "make a strong request."

Alexander Holmes
Local time: 08:35
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks! Let's wait a little while for some more opinions.

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17 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Go forth, insist and pester/wear out your neighbour


Explanation:
In my copy, it says: haz lo siguiente para librarte, pues caíste en poder de tu vecino: ve, insiste, acosa a tu vecino.According to this rendering, i would suggest the above translation.Hope it helps!

Marian Martin
Spain
Local time: 15:35
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in category: 4
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you, Marian! Your version sounds quite close to the German version by Martin Luther, something like: "Hurry, push and drive your neighbor." I am just wondering how could the version I got which was published 1960 by Sociedades Biblicas en América Latina so different from what I understand in both German and English. But the funny story is that the Chinese version comes near to the Spanish version I am reading while the writing style is something unenjoyable.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Alexander Holmes
11 mins
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28 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Go forth, swallow your pride and insist upon thy neighbour.


Explanation:
Aha! The last bit was all wrong the first time. I'm still rooting for "humillate" as "swallow your pride" I hope it works out better this time.

Alexander Holmes
Local time: 08:35
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
Notes to answerer
Asker: Many thanks! I like this one, too. However, the next sentences go like this: "No des sueño a tus ojos; Ni a tus párpados adormecimiento; Escápate como gacela de la mano del cazador, y como ave de la mano del que arma lazos." That was why I was wondering over "retain your friendship."


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Marian Martin: I feel this is a good way of putting it.
1 min
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55 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Go, humble yourself, and make sure of your friend/his friendship


Explanation:
En la Biblia considerada, en Gran Bretaña, como la oficialmente reconocida, en su versión revisada de 1881 dice:
"Do this now, my son, and deliver thyself, when thou art come into the hand of thy friend; go, humble thyself, an make sure thy friend"
Añado lo que dicen de esta versión de la Biblia:
"The most famous English translation is probably the Authorized Version or King James Bible of 1611. There was a Revised Version, first published in 1881."
Lo cierto es que aunque en Inglés antiguo, es una traducción mucho más parecida, por lo menos a mi modo de ver, a la versión española que has colocado.
Saludos.

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Note added at 18 horas (2007-07-29 20:13:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

After reading your coments, it is odd to have to take such measures towards someone that one would consider a friend, it would only make sense, in some way and not completely either, as you mention and seems to be, if it had to do with someone who was considered a friend and has lost that status because of a wrong behaviour on his part. The translation doesn't seem clear in that sense then, unless the continuation would have to do with no resting until you actually have clear whether the other is or not a friend... and obviously doesn't solve the doubt.
These are the kind of translations where according to who does the translation there can be slight (or big!) diferences betwen translators, as the meaning may vary with the translation.
And as Stereofreak has mentioned, probably we won't really know the correct meaning unless we read the original Bible in Hebrew...
Glad you asked this question. Very interesting results and feedback!
Cheers, and good luck!

Anne Smith Campbell
Spain
Local time: 15:35
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you for your suggestion! The previous sentence goes like this: "6: 1 HIJO mío, si salieres fiador por tu amigo, Si tocaste tu mano por el extraño, 6:2 Enlazado eres con las palabras de tu boca, Y preso con las razones de tu boca." So, there must have been a friendship. However, when the friendship went sour, you are in danger and you need to "Haz esto ahora, hijo mío, y líbrate, Ya que has caído en la mano de tu prójimo: Ve, humíllate, y asegúrate de tu amigo. No des sueño á tus ojos, Ni á tus párpados adormecimiento. Escápate como el corzo de la mano del cazador, Y como el ave de la mano del parancero." My doubt lies in the fact that the friendship doesn't exit, when you sense this necessity or when you are advised by a wiseman like Salomon to take such measures. Why should you make sure of "his friendship"? Please do not put me wrong. I appreciate your suggestion very much. But it doesn't solve my doubt at moment.

Asker: BTW, wars don't start with simple reasons, such as just because of Helen or for the sake of Marin Luther's advocation.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Alexander Holmes: Ah! So at least I was right about the friendship thing then! I guess no one will know for sure unless we look at the original in Hebrew. This is the kind of thing that starts wars you know ;)
1 hr
  -> Yes, I know! :)
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21 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Go, humble thyself, and urge thy neighbour.


Explanation:
I have done a little research into Proverb 6 and this is what I have found.Two sources from the Hebrew Bible translate the verse as "Go, humble thyself, and urge thy neighbour."
The problem is understanding the overall meaning of Proverb 6, which is somewhat controversial, so I looked for some Bible Criticism and voilá, please look at this webpage http://www.crivoice.org/biblestudy/bbproverbs4.html
The bottom line is: you come into your neighbour's power when you have promised surety for his debts.When this has happened, urgently hurry to him and beg, plead or forcefully persuade him, but do anything to extract yourself from such an obligation.The compassionate son of Israel in this situation is likened to a hunted gazelle or bird. I hope this is what you were looking for!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 hrs (2007-07-29 22:38:52 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Wenjer: Here is a link to Hebrew Bible, Proverb 6 (with parallel English translation)
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt2806.htm

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 hrs (2007-07-29 23:14:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The second link: http://www.breslov.com/bible/Proverbs6.htm

Marian Martin
Spain
Local time: 15:35
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Thank you very much! This is exactly what I was looking for. This makes the accordance between "asegúrate de tu amigo" and "make a strong request to your neighbour."
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)



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