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Quien hace que? NOT VOCAB, but Clarification...

English translation: You are right, Berni

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14:58 Sep 6, 2000
Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary
Spanish term or phrase: Quien hace que? NOT VOCAB, but Clarification...
I don’t need specific vocabulary here, but rather confirmation that I am on the right track… or else clarification to put me on it :-)

This is one of those “wonderful” Spanish sentences that, to my mind, show scant regard for clarity.
My doubts are in English, between [square brackets].

[Who did what here? The author is talking about a fairly obscure Valencian Painter]

"La cultura de Juanes, de quien consta su conocimiento del latín (GONZÁLEZ, 1999), su interés por la novela pastoril, y su amistad con Ramírez Pagán, traductor de Virgilio y Horacio y preceptor de las hijas del Duque de Segorbe, [RP was all these things.. not Juanes.. ¿correct?] expresamente citadas por Montemayor en la Diana, [was it this information that was expressly “citADAS” or even something by/about the daughters?] proporcionan valiosos indicios para reconstruir el ambiente artístico e intelectual en el que se fraguó esta pintura".

Possible Translation:
Juanes was undoubtedly a cultured man. We know of his knowledge of Latin (GONZÁLEZ, 1999), his interest in the pastoral novel and his friendship with Ramírez Pagán, the translator of Virgil and Horace and private tutor to the daughters of the Duke of Segorbe. These facts, expressly quoted by Montemayor in his Diana, give us valuable clues that enable us to reconstruct the artistic and intellectual ambience in which the painter conceived his work.

Any major flaws in my interpretation??
Berni Armstrong
Local time: 07:17
English translation:You are right, Berni
Explanation:
Montemayor quotes these facts in his Diana, nothing about the daughters...

and RP was the translator of Virgil and Horace and bla bla bla...

Good luck! :)

Elinor
Selected response from:

Elinor Thomas
Local time: 02:17
Grading comment
Thanks to everybody. We sometimes need "respaldo" in our "lonely" profession, ¿no?

My wife (native Spaniard) also suggested that "citadas" ould refer to the daughters. But she also thought it was really badly written... and I quote: "Think, somebody was paid good money to write this drivel... and torture some poor translator in the process!"

We get to REALLY read a text... not like the casual reader who would probably never pick up on half of our doubts.
3 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
naI beg to differMartin Perazzo
nacitadas refers to the daughters!
Marijke Singer
nacomments about your translationoscar barrios pinto
nathis paintingPhillip Berryman
naYes. Correct.
Parrot
naYou are right, Berni
Elinor Thomas
naperfectly clear
Claudia Esteve
naYou are right, Berni
Elinor Thomas


  

Answers


7 mins
You are right, Berni


Explanation:
Montemayor quotes these facts in his Diana, nothing about the daughters...

and RP was the translator of Virgil and Horace and bla bla bla...

Good luck! :)

Elinor

Elinor Thomas
Local time: 02:17
Native speaker of: Spanish
PRO pts in pair: 247
Grading comment
Thanks to everybody. We sometimes need "respaldo" in our "lonely" profession, ¿no?

My wife (native Spaniard) also suggested that "citadas" ould refer to the daughters. But she also thought it was really badly written... and I quote: "Think, somebody was paid good money to write this drivel... and torture some poor translator in the process!"

We get to REALLY read a text... not like the casual reader who would probably never pick up on half of our doubts.
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8 mins
You are right, Berni


Explanation:
Montemayor quotes these facts in his Diana, nothing about the daughters...

and RP was the translator of Virgil and Horace and bla bla bla...

Good luck! :)

Elinor

Elinor Thomas
Local time: 02:17
Native speaker of: Spanish
PRO pts in pair: 247
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

18 mins
perfectly clear


Explanation:
Congrats Berni,
you're right on track!
Claudia

Claudia Esteve
United States
Local time: 01:17
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in pair: 65
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52 mins
Yes. Correct.


Explanation:
Just expressing my sympathies.

Parrot
Spain
Local time: 07:17
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 7645
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1 hr
this painting


Explanation:
Agreed in general with your construal of a poorly written sentence. Does the "esta pintura" refer to a particular painting that the reader is expected to be viewing? If so, perhaps "the atmosphere that issuedin this painting" -- although "se fraguo" has a more passive sense.
Adelante!
Phil Berryman

Phillip Berryman
Local time: 01:17
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 147
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1 hr
I beg to differ


Explanation:
1. The only thing here I can see that are "citadas" are the Duke of Segorbe's daughters...
2. The sentence construction seems to point to what you have interpreted, i.e. that it was Ramírez Pagán who translated Virgil and Horace, etc.

The sentence is confusing and poorly written, even more so when we see that the author writes "proporcionan" in plural, when the sentence begins with "La cultura". He should have either put "proporciona" or found some other way to end his already poorly-conceived and -written sentence and start a new one here, saying "Estos hechos proporcionan...".
Just an opinion.

Martin Perazzo
Spain
Local time: 07:17
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in pair: 123
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15 hrs
citadas refers to the daughters!


Explanation:
Hi Berni,

I thought I'd e-mail you even though you had closed the question. I agree with Nexus and it is the daughters he is referring to.

"La cultura de Juanes, de quien consta su conocimiento del latín (GONZÁLEZ, 1999), su interés por la novela pastoril, y su amistad con Ramírez Pagán, traductor de Virgilio y Horacio y preceptor de las hijas del Duque de Segorbe, [RP was all these things.. not Juanes.. ¿correct?: RP was traductor de Virgilio y Horacio y preceptor de las hijas del Duque de Segorbe and about Juanes is known that su conocimiento del latín (GONZÁLEZ, 1999), su interés por la novela pastoril, y su amistad con Ramírez Pagán] expresamente citadas por Montemayor en la Diana, [was it this information that was expressly “citADAS” or even something by/about the daughters; I think the daughters cause it is the only thing feminine in the sentence?] proporcionan valiosos indicios para reconstruir el ambiente artístico e intelectual en el que se fraguó esta pintura".


Possible Translation:
Juanes was undoubtedly a cultured man. We know of his knowledge of Latin (GONZÁLEZ, 1999), his interest in the pastoral novel and his friendship with Ramírez Pagán, the translator of Virgil and Horace and private tutor to the daughters of the Duke of Segorbe, who are expressly quoted by Montemayor in his Diana, give us valuable clues that enable us to reconstruct the artistic and intellectual ambience in which the painter conceived his work.


Basically because 'citadas' is feminine and plural and the only thing in the text that is femenine and plural are the daughters. Usually the 'literatura pastoril' was based on real (rich/powerful) people and although I am not certain whether Diana was based on a daughter of the duke, it definately is possible.

Regards,
Marijke

Marijke Singer
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:17
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in pair: 602
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17 hrs
comments about your translation


Explanation:
the first sentence doesn´t mean necessarily that Juanes was "undoubtely cultured" and "preceptor" could mean someone that teaches latin grammar. In general you are in the right way!

oscar barrios pinto
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