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'non plus ultra'

English translation: ne plus ultra, non plus ultra, or better yet, re-phrase and simplify

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11:43 Oct 3, 2001
Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary
Spanish term or phrase: 'non plus ultra'
Definir la inmigración como una cuestión de Estado, como se hace a menudo, actúa como una barrera para frenar el debate político, como un “non plus ultra” que provoca un grave déficit democrático en una discusión que tendría que afectar al conjunto de la sociedad.
xxxLia Fail
Spain
Local time: 18:43
English translation:ne plus ultra, non plus ultra, or better yet, re-phrase and simplify
Explanation:
Both forms of this Latin phrase are used in English. However, such usage in English (at least here in the U.S.) can often come across as pedantic, obfuscatory, or just a way to show off one's erudition. You could rephrase using common language. In fact, this could be done by omitting the Latin phrase completely, since the preceding phrase ("barrera para frenar") already carries the meaning of a point beyond which discussion is not allowed to pass. So: "...acts as a barrier that halts political debate, provoking a ... "
Selected response from:

Alan Lambson
Local time: 10:43
Grading comment
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +2non plus ultra
Nikki Graham
5 +1no más alláxxxOso
5absolute limit
Parrot
3 +1[comment]Alan Lambson
4nouse/nous
Nikki Graham
5 -1[COMMENT]DR. RICHARD BAVRY
4nec plus ultra
Simon Charass
4Ne plus ultraJesús Paredes
4 -1ne plus ultra, non plus ultra, or better yet, re-phrase and simplifyAlan Lambson


  

Answers


13 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
nec plus ultra


Explanation:
I’ll be using the Latin form “nec plus ultra”.

Simon Charass
Canada
Local time: 12:43
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in pair: 223
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16 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
no más allá


Explanation:
Hola Ailish,
Esta expresión en latín sugnifica "no más allá" y se usa como sustantivo masculino para ponderar las cosas exagerándolas. También es la inscripción que supuestamente estaba en las Columnas de Hércules.


Buena suerte y saludos del Oso ¶:^)



    Larousse
xxxOso
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in pair: 3064

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Camara: Teacher+traductor!Mí sálida de los miércoles con el grupo por la "Carretera Nac." ida y vuelta 40km ida y 40 vuelta!:)
42 mins
  -> ¡¡¡Qué aguante!!! Ojalá pudiera tener tu energía!!! Pero a mi edad...¶:^)
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20 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
ne plus ultra, non plus ultra, or better yet, re-phrase and simplify


Explanation:
Both forms of this Latin phrase are used in English. However, such usage in English (at least here in the U.S.) can often come across as pedantic, obfuscatory, or just a way to show off one's erudition. You could rephrase using common language. In fact, this could be done by omitting the Latin phrase completely, since the preceding phrase ("barrera para frenar") already carries the meaning of a point beyond which discussion is not allowed to pass. So: "...acts as a barrier that halts political debate, provoking a ... "

Alan Lambson
Local time: 10:43
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 114

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  DR. RICHARD BAVRY: "obfuscatory" sounds a bit pedantic to these old ears ;>)
10 hrs
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22 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Ne plus ultra


Explanation:
The ultimate, especially the finest, best, most perfect, etc. (Webster's Dictionary).............. ne plus ultra \nee-plus-UL-truh; nay-\, noun:
1. The highest point, as of excellence or achievement; the acme; the pinnacle; the ultimate.
2. The most profound degree of a quality or condition.




    Reference: http://www.dictionary.com/wordoftheday/archive/2001/07/24.ht...
Jesús Paredes
Local time: 13:43
PRO pts in pair: 151
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
non plus ultra


Explanation:
this is given in the original in italics, so keep it as it is, this is obviously what the writer intends to say. It's in the English-English (New Oxford Shorter) dictionary (Latin = not more beyond = meaning the highest point or culmination), so why paraphrase?? Why translate??
I really don't understand what the problem is. Anybody with any nouse reading your translation will understand and it'll keep the original "flavour" of the text.
The term + political in Google gave 196 hits (for example)


    as above
Nikki Graham
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:43
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 5584

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  patpending: the "non plus ultra" is the]
22 mins

agree  DR. RICHARD BAVRY: Let it stand [stet..pedantic enough?]..but what is "nouse"?
7 hrs
  -> nouse or nous means common sense, (practical) intelligence
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
absolute limit


Explanation:
This is an arbitrary rendering of a phrase which probably has more Latin equivalents than English (el no vas más, literally "no more beyond", which in Dante is so eloquently translated as "abandon hope all ye who enter here", which seems closer to your context). This is the denial of Spain's old "Plus Ultra" motto (under Charles V) which referred to the supposedly unlimited extent of the colonies beyond the Strait of Gibraltar (the Pillars of Hercules depicted on old Spanish coins with the legend "Plus Ultra".) Hence, its use evokes a historical irony, since emigration used to be okay but immigration now isn't, and don't even mention it. This is hard to sum up in a few words.

Parrot
Spain
Local time: 18:43
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 7645
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12 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -1
[COMMENT]


Explanation:
With regard to "nouse" [should be "nous"]. Wow, talk about pedantic! I just might have recognized "nous" from my studies of Greek philosophy, but that finial "e" was my final undoing [I was fit to be tied!]. Guess what they say is true: if you give someone enough rope (or toss in a superfluous "e"), he/she will hang him/herself. No noose [nous(e)] is good news as far as I am concerned. Clearly, without intentionally obfuscating, it is indeed something smacking of "non plus ultra", QED!


    the joy of supercilious silliness
DR. RICHARD BAVRY
PRO pts in pair: 94

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Nikki Graham: actually both spellings are correct + it's very common (colloquial) in England.
1 day 9 hrs
  -> Well, with all due respect, please submit your evidence for this, if you will be so kind!
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1 day 2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
[comment]


Explanation:
Thanks, Ailish, for choosing my answer, even though it veered towards the pedantic in its anti-pedantry. I vowed long ago to "eschew obfuscation", and was gently but clearly chided for just that by wiser colleagues.

Seriously, I hope I didn't offend anyone by giving the idea that only pedants use latin phrases. They certainly have a useful and honored place in our language. However, when their meaning is not transparent to most literate readers (which was the risk of using "non plus ultra" in this somewhat obscure context), they can be annoying, and it may be best to find a work-around.

Alan Lambson
Local time: 10:43
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 114

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  DR. RICHARD BAVRY: I was just testing your mettle...of course, always depends on the audience...often a bone of bitter contention
19 hrs
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1 day 22 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
nouse/nous


Explanation:
Sorry Ailish,

this is for the Doc's benefit. See link below, but it's also in the New Shorter Oxford dictionay, in Collins, in Oxford



    Reference: http://home.eol.ca/~buzzcorr/NOUS%20-%20LINGO.htm
Nikki Graham
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:43
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 5584
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