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oficial 1ª, 2ª y 3ª

English translation: journeyman

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Spanish term or phrase:oficial
English translation:journeyman
Entered by: xxxtazdog
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11:32 Jul 10, 2001
Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Bus/Financial
Spanish term or phrase: oficial 1ª, 2ª y 3ª
No context other than "grupos profesionales." These probably refer to categorías laborales in a factory setting, because later on I have "oficial administrativo." Other variations are "oficial 1ª (etc.) mecánica" and "oficial 1ª (etc.) montador." I hate to use the "officer" that comes up in so many sources as the translation for the factory positions, because it really isn't that, and "official" also sounds funny. I can probably get around the "oficial 1ª montador", for example, by calling it a "Grade 1 Assembler," but any ideas for the plain old "oficiales," sin más? This refers to Spain, by the way.

Thanks for any help!
xxxtazdog
Spain
Local time: 04:39
journeyman
Explanation:
Yo te sugiero la palabra journeyman que es la que usamos en nuestra empresa para describir a los obreros calificados.
Sería entonces First class journeyman, Second class journeyman, etc.
Aclaración: la palabra "officer" se refiere al personal ejecutivo en el contexto laboral.
Espero que te ayude.
PMG
Selected response from:

Patricia McGrory
Canada
Local time: 20:39
Grading comment
Thank you all for your excellent suggestions. I already had both foreman and technician as separate categories, so those were out, and I did have "operario" as well. As it turns out, Simon and Schuster's translation of "journeyman" is exactly "oficial," clarified as "obrero que ha terminado el aprendizaje." (Too bad they didn't cross reference it under "oficial.") And I found this English definition of "journeyman:" From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) (web1913)
"Journeyman \Jour"ney*man\, n.; pl. {Journeymen}. Formerly, a man hired to work by the day; now, commonly, one who has mastered a handicraft or trade; -- distinguished from apprentice and from master workman." (And yes, I have "aprendices" and "maestros" as well.) So that covers the suggestions that included "skilled" in a one-word answer. Thanks again for your help.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
na"oficial" is a Social Security/syndicate term for "operario"
Parrot
naskilled worker
Patricia Lutteral
natechnician (1st, 2nd, 3rd)
Davorka Grgic
naSEE EXPLANATION [FOREMAN]
Terry Burgess
najourneymanPatricia McGrory


  

Answers


22 mins
journeyman


Explanation:
Yo te sugiero la palabra journeyman que es la que usamos en nuestra empresa para describir a los obreros calificados.
Sería entonces First class journeyman, Second class journeyman, etc.
Aclaración: la palabra "officer" se refiere al personal ejecutivo en el contexto laboral.
Espero que te ayude.
PMG

Patricia McGrory
Canada
Local time: 20:39
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in pair: 26
Grading comment
Thank you all for your excellent suggestions. I already had both foreman and technician as separate categories, so those were out, and I did have "operario" as well. As it turns out, Simon and Schuster's translation of "journeyman" is exactly "oficial," clarified as "obrero que ha terminado el aprendizaje." (Too bad they didn't cross reference it under "oficial.") And I found this English definition of "journeyman:" From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) (web1913)
"Journeyman \Jour"ney*man\, n.; pl. {Journeymen}. Formerly, a man hired to work by the day; now, commonly, one who has mastered a handicraft or trade; -- distinguished from apprentice and from master workman." (And yes, I have "aprendices" and "maestros" as well.) So that covers the suggestions that included "skilled" in a one-word answer. Thanks again for your help.
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22 mins
SEE EXPLANATION [FOREMAN]


Explanation:
Hi Cindy!
I can see your predicament. I live in Mexico but there isn't anything even remotely similar here. Those terms would readily apply to a ship's crew but that isn't what you need. Simon & Schusters gives one usage of "oficial" as a "skilled workman" but that doesn't solve your problem either.

The only thing that occurs to me is "Foreman" (1st, 2nd, 3rd etc), or "Supervising" as in: "1st Supervising Mechanic" etc. [though I confess I don't much care for it---I'd prefer "Foreman" [See Random House-Webster's monolingual doc].

Unless you get something more concrete from other colleagues, I have to say I like your idea about "Grade".

Hope this doesn't confuse you more:-)
terry


    None
Terry Burgess
Mexico
Local time: 21:39
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 2372
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28 mins
technician (1st, 2nd, 3rd)


Explanation:
skilled workman / craftsman

(Collins)

technician (1st, 2nd, 3rd)

(me)

Maguires Recruitment - IT and Executive Recruitment throughout ...
... Type, Permanent. Position, PC Support Technician (1st/2nd). Skills, Working in
the IT solutions team of this household name you will be on a team supporting 250 ...
www.maguiresrecruitment.com/search_detail.cfm?ID=813

"oficial" translates into "officer" only in the military, police and clerical contexts.

HTH



    see above
Davorka Grgic
Local time: 04:39
Native speaker of: Native in CroatianCroatian, Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in pair: 498
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36 mins
skilled worker


Explanation:
Hi, Cindy
I came across the same word recently (I even had a "medio oficial"!), and "skilled worker" was our final decision, mine and engineer-in-charge's.

Hope it helps, regards,

Patricia

Patricia Lutteral
Argentina
Local time: 00:39
Native speaker of: Spanish
PRO pts in pair: 505
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1 hr
"oficial" is a Social Security/syndicate term for "operario"


Explanation:
which, simply put, is "operator" (worker, or one who mans an industrial post) (Oops, they also have these for hairdressers, but I think your context fits in well with the industrial translation). As to the classifications, Patricia comes very close: they refer to degrees of skill, training and seniority on the job. Some people say "skilled and semi-skilled" especially when talking about British Union standards, but an exact equivalent is not that easy (you can get vocational training as 1ª or 2ª without experience). Your "Grades" are OK.

Parrot
Spain
Local time: 04:39
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 7645
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