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del conocimiento del otorgante y de los testigos

English translation: (I, the notary, hereby certify) that I know the testator and the witnesses

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Spanish term or phrase:del conocimiento del otorgante y de los testigos
English translation:(I, the notary, hereby certify) that I know the testator and the witnesses
Entered by: Jane Martin
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12:03 Oct 25, 2013
Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general)
Spanish term or phrase: del conocimiento del otorgante y de los testigos
This occurs in a Spanish will in the final paragraph. Context is as follows:

Del conocimiento del otorgante y de los testigos: de que estos me aseguran conocer al testador; de ser la hora indicada; del cumplimiento del requisito de la unidad del acto y demas formalidades y solemniddes prevenidas por la ley, y del contenido integro de este instrumento publico, que dejo extendido sobre el presente pliego de clase 7a, el Notario, doy fe.

My question is: is the notary attesting to the fact that the testator and the witnesses know each other, or that the notary knows both the testator and the witnesses.

TIA
Jane Martin
Local time: 08:05
(I, the notary, hereby certify) that I know the testator and the witnesses
Explanation:
This particular bit means the latter: the notary is attesting to his or her knowledge of the testator and the witnesses. This is a long-standing requirement. It doesn't mean they're friends or anything, simply that the notary has to certify that he/she personally knows that the testator and witnesses are who they're supposed to be.

See here, chapter II, starting on p. 463:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/73563803/Fernandez-Casado-Miguel-T...

I would bring "el Notario, doy fe" from the end to the beginning, otherwise it'll be rather awkward. You could say "certify my knowledge of", but "certify that I know" seems more natural and "that..." fits better with what follows. I agree with you that the "otorgante" of a will should be called the testator.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 mins (2013-10-25 12:25:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The Spanish Ley del Notariado dates from 1862, though it's been revised since, most recently in 2006. Here's the beginning of Article 23, the relevant bit, in its current form:

"Los notarios darán fe en las escrituras públicas y en aquellas actas que por su índole especial lo requieran de que conocen a las partes o de haberse asegurado de su identidad por los medios supletorios establecidos en las leyes y reglamentos."
http://noticias.juridicas.com/base_datos/Fiscal/l36-2006.htm...
Selected response from:

Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 09:05
Grading comment
Thank you Charles. Jane
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +6(I, the notary, hereby certify) that I know the testator and the witnesses
Charles Davis
4I hereby Certify that the testator and witnesses have been properly identified for tje purpose there
Phoenix III
3 -1For the benefit of the grantor and witnesses
Oliver Toogood


  

Answers


7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
For the benefit of the grantor and witnesses


Explanation:
My question is: is the notary attesting to the fact that the testator and the witnesses know each other, or that the notary knows both the testator and the witnesses.

The answer to your question is neither; the notary is merely releasing information for the benefit of both the grantor and the witnesses, who all assure the notary that they know/knew the testator.

Oliver Toogood
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:05
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 45

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  AllegroTrans: No, the notary is not merely releasing information, he/she is certifying that he knows both the testator and the witnesses (if he didn't know them, he would have to check their identity docs and certify that he had done so); all formal necessity
3 hrs
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18 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +6
(I, the notary, hereby certify) that I know the testator and the witnesses


Explanation:
This particular bit means the latter: the notary is attesting to his or her knowledge of the testator and the witnesses. This is a long-standing requirement. It doesn't mean they're friends or anything, simply that the notary has to certify that he/she personally knows that the testator and witnesses are who they're supposed to be.

See here, chapter II, starting on p. 463:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/73563803/Fernandez-Casado-Miguel-T...

I would bring "el Notario, doy fe" from the end to the beginning, otherwise it'll be rather awkward. You could say "certify my knowledge of", but "certify that I know" seems more natural and "that..." fits better with what follows. I agree with you that the "otorgante" of a will should be called the testator.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 mins (2013-10-25 12:25:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The Spanish Ley del Notariado dates from 1862, though it's been revised since, most recently in 2006. Here's the beginning of Article 23, the relevant bit, in its current form:

"Los notarios darán fe en las escrituras públicas y en aquellas actas que por su índole especial lo requieran de que conocen a las partes o de haberse asegurado de su identidad por los medios supletorios establecidos en las leyes y reglamentos."
http://noticias.juridicas.com/base_datos/Fiscal/l36-2006.htm...

Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 09:05
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 1244
Grading comment
Thank you Charles. Jane
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you Charles. I have already moved Doy fe to the beginning for precisely the reasons you mentioned and was favouring this translation but needed confirmation that it was the right one. Jane

Asker: I am working from a bad photocopy which also has dodgy punctuation - so I wouldn't worry about the punctuation. J


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  philgoddard: I was a bit unsure because of the impersonal "del" rather than "de mi", and because of the colon, but this must be what it means.
3 hrs
  -> Thanks, Phil! By the way, I agree that the colon is a bit odd. I wouldn't be surprised if it were an error for a semicolon.
agree  José Manuel Lozano
3 hrs
  -> Thanks, José!
agree  AllegroTrans
3 hrs
  -> Thanks, Allegro!
agree  Lucia Samayoa
3 hrs
  -> Thanks, Lucía :)
agree  Yvonne Gallagher
8 hrs
  -> Thanks, gallagy :)
agree  James A. Walsh: Or as a mere alternative: "[that the testator and witnesses] are known to me"
11 hrs
  -> I like this; in fact I prefer it: "known to me" somehow seems more suitable when what it really means in practice is that "I know who they are". Many thanks, James ;)
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
I hereby Certify that the testator and witnesses have been properly identified for tje purpose there


Explanation:
Conocimiento in this context, means that the Notary has properly identified the testator and the witnessed. All of which is required of any Notary Public prior to any Certification. rest of the jargon is flowers on the icing.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2013-10-25 14:33:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Thereof.
My phone didn't copy the whole word. Sorry.

Phoenix III
United States
Local time: 03:05
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in category: 50

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  AllegroTrans: that is the end result but here the notary is stating that he or she actually knows them (presumably dispensing from the requirement to check and certify ID)
6 hrs
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