no susceptibles de apreciación pecuniaria

English translation: non-monetary (legal matters/cases)

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

Spanish term or phrase:	no susceptibles de apreciación pecuniaria
English translation:	non-monetary (legal matters/cases)

05:07 Jul 7, 2018

The asker opted for community grading. The question was closed on 2018-07-10 22:54:07 based on peer agreement (or, if there were too few peer comments, asker preference.)

Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general)

Spanish term or phrase: no susceptibles de apreciación pecuniaria

"Honorarios mínimos en asuntos judiciales no susceptibles de apreciación pecuniaria"

This originates from an Argentine statute describing the situation of legal fees by attorneys and solicitors. Many references say this is translated as "for good and valuable consideration," but that doesn't seem to fit this context. Following this statement is a list of actions (divorce, adoption, etc.) with the minimum legal fees that correspond.

Joshua Farley KudoZ activity Questions: 30 (none open) (1 without valid answers) Answers: 0 United States
Local time: 09:49

non-monetary (legal matters/cases)

Explanation:
With the greatest respect, I do not agree that "apreciación pecuniaria" means valuable consideration here, and I think you were right in the first place: it doesn't fit this context. In fact I don't know what it means to speak of lawyers' fees not being subject to valuable consideration. "Valuable consideration" is a concept in contract law; it basically means payment for services rendered. Even if you see the lawyer-client relationship as contractual, the idea of the lawyer's fees being subject to valuable consideration is surely meaningless; those fees ARE valuable consideration for legal services rendered.

But in any case, "no susceptibles de apreciación pecuniaria" doesn't refer to "honorarios", the fees, but to "asuntos judiciales", the legal matters or types of cases in which those fees are paid. Whatever it means, it's a property of certain types of legal proceeding, the types listed: divorce, adoption, etc., not a property of the associated lawyers' fees.

So what does it mean? The following document is a helpful start:

"El juicio de cancelación de hipoteca no es susceptible de apreciación pecuniaria a los fines regulatorios porque con él sólo se pretende el levantamiento del gravamen hipotecario y no el cuestionamiento a la deuda garantizada. No existe pretensión de ningún beneficio patrimonial de una parte que se traslade a la otra. La regulación de honorarios debe efectuarse entonces teniendo en cuenta las disposiciones contenidas en los artículos 4 y 5 del Arancel."
http://www.jusonline.gov.ar/Jurisprudencia/textos.asp?id=947...

In other words, a case that is "no susceptible de apreciación pecuniaria" is one in which there is no monetary benefit to the winning party: the judgment doesn't involve any "beneficio patrimonial", any payment. In such cases, the lawyer gets a minimum set fee.

So what happens in the other kind of cases, those that are "susceptibles de apreciación pecuniaria", that is, those in which the winning party obtains a monetary benefit from the judgment? In that case, the lawyer gets a percentage of that monetary benefit, the "cuantía" or "monto" of the case. This is stated in the relevant law:

"En los procesos susceptibles de apreciación pecuniaria los honorarios por la defensa de cada una de las partes serán fijados según la cuantía de los mismos [i.e., of procesos of this kind], de acuerdo con la siguiente escala:

Escala..............................%
Hasta 15 UMA..................del 22% al 33%
De 16 UMA a 45 UMA.........del 20% al 26%
De 46 UMA a 90 UMA.........del 18% al 24%
De 91 UMA a 150 UMA.......del 17% al 22%
De 151 UMA a 450 UMA......del 15% al 20%
De 451 UMA a 750 UMA......del 13% al 17%
De 751 UMA en adelante.....del 12% al 15%
[...]
En el caso de los auxiliares de la Justicia, el monto de los honorarios a regular no podrá ser inferior al cinco por ciento (5%) ni superior al diez por ciento (10%) del monto del proceso."
https://ar.vlex.com/vid/ley-27-423-700000437?_ga=2.144474741...

So both lawyers and "auxiliares" get a percentage of the "monto del proceso", and that is defined here:

"El art. 19 de la ley 21.839 establece que se considerará monto del proceso la suma que resultare de la sentencia o transacción [...]"
https://www.pjn.gov.ar/Publicaciones/00002/00028663.Pdf

It's the amount awarded by the judgment: the amount the winning party gets. That, of course, doesn't apply to cases like divorce or adoption, where neither part gets a monetary award.

So I would suggest you might translate "asuntos judiciales no susceptibles de apreciación pecuniaria" as "non-monetary legal matters" or "cases". There may be a more suitable term, but I think it expresses the meaning.

"For this reason, we agree that a standard fee for all non-monetary cases is a sensible proposition."
https://consult.justice.gov.uk/digital-communications/court-...

Selected response from:

Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 15:49

Grading comment

This is excellent and I appreciate your detailed answer very much! This term comes up numerous times in this document and your answer cleared up a lot of doubts I had. Thank you kindly!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

4 +4

non-monetary (legal matters/cases)

Charles Davis

unlikely to increase over time

Francois Boye

flat rate

Jennifer Levey

[minimum fees] not subject to valuable consideration

lorenab23

Discussion entries: 10

John Rynne

Spanish experience

11:32 Jul 9, 2018

I generally come across this sort of thing in the context of notarised documents (Spain). If you buy a house, the notary's fee is a percentage of the house price. However, if the document granted before the notary does not refer to anything monetary, e.g. a pact between private individuals for mutual support, or an agreement as to child custody, or even a will, there is no money amount there on which to apply the standard percentage. These cases attract the minimum fee.

lorenab23

United States

@Taña

18:40 Jul 7, 2018

Thank you and un abrazo para ti!

Joshua Farley

United States

ASKER

18:28 Jul 7, 2018

Okay, I understand now! I wasn't looking at it from the right perspective, my apologies! Thank you so much for clearing this up for me

Taña Dalglish

Jamaica

@ Lorena

18:26 Jul 7, 2018

Thank you Lorena. Why don't you most your answer "minimum fees not subject to valuable consideration". Go on!!! Un abrazo.

lorenab23

United States

In my humble opinion

18:20 Jul 7, 2018

Taña's last post has it right: minimum fees not subject to valuable consideration...

lorenab23

United States

@Joshua

18:16 Jul 7, 2018

The whole sentence with Francois suggestion means that the fees paid to attorneys/prosecutors are not likely to be increased over time. That makes non sense. So they will be working forever at the same rate??? Please look at the references I posted for your "JUS" question and you will see that the rates are increased periodically: RESUELVE:
1) Establecer la unidad de honorario profesional de Abogado o Procurador “Jus”, en pesos seiscientos dos con cero centavos ($ 602), el que será actualizado en forma trimestral.

Taña Dalglish

Jamaica

18:07 Jul 7, 2018

Disagree:
Another post. "Not subject to valuable consideration" (there is nothing in your text about an increase over time).
https://www.proz.com/kudoz/english_to_spanish/law_patents/22...

Joshua Farley

United States

ASKER

17:46 Jul 7, 2018

Because in this case it is making reference to the increase in price over time of the established legal fees, so I believe Francois' answer is most accurate for this context.

Taña Dalglish

Jamaica

11:59 Jul 7, 2018

https://www.proz.com/kudoz/english_to_spanish/law_general/29...
GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
English term or phrase: for good and valuable consideration (ver pregunta)
Spanish translation: a título oneroso / contraprestación válida y susceptible de apreciación pecuniaria

https://www.proz.com/kudoz/english_to_spanish/law_contracts/...
along with good and valuable consideration
Spanish translation:junto con una contraprestación susceptible de apreciación pecuniaria

lorenab23

United States

Hi Joshua

05:30 Jul 7, 2018

Can you tell us why you do not think that valuable consideration fits here?
https://definitions.uslegal.com/v/valuable-consideration/

Answers

9 hrs confidence:

unlikely to increase over time

Explanation:
This is how it would be expressed in English

Francois Boye
United States
Local time: 09:49
Native speaker of:

French
PRO pts in category: 167

13 hrs confidence:

[minimum fees] not subject to valuable consideration

Explanation:
Please see discussion

lorenab23
United States
Local time: 06:49
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English,

Spanish
PRO pts in category: 172

17 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +4

non-monetary (legal matters/cases)

Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 15:49
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 1379

Grading comment

This is excellent and I appreciate your detailed answer very much! This term comes up numerous times in this document and your answer cleared up a lot of doubts I had. Thank you kindly!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

Chema Nieto Castañón: Aunque en ámbito patrimonial se aludiría con la expresión "no susceptible de apreciación pecuniaria" a not subject to monetary valuation, en el contexto dado parece referirse, efectivamente, a (fees for) non-monetary claims. Saludos!

2 hrs

-> Muchas gracias, Chema :-)

neutral

Jennifer Levey: I think you're reading too much into this - and ending up with a translation that would make little sense in most (legal) cases.

2 hrs

-> Well, my main purpose was to establish what it means, which I believe I have. Without that, there's no hope of a correct translation. I think "non-monetary" is readily understood.

agree

Manuel Cedeño Berrueta

14 hrs

-> Many thanks, Manuel :-)

agree

patinba: I think it is the equivalent of "documento sin cuantía" in Spain, that is to say "document for no amount"

16 hrs

-> Thanks, Pat :-) Yes, I think that's the idea.

agree

Robert Carter: Exactly, covered all points. As Pat says, equivalent to "sin cuantía", although I'd call that a document containing a transaction for no monetary value https://bit.ly/2KEFa9v

17 hrs

-> Many thanks, Robert!

19 hrs confidence:

flat rate

Explanation:
honorarios mínimos en asuntos judiciales no susceptibles de apreciación pecuniaria
-->
flat rate fees on legal matters not dependent on value of the cause

My suggested translation will depend on the target readership (UK/US/ZA/AU/other...), but I'm pretty sure it refers to "flat rate" fees for "standard" legal jobs where the fee charged/chargeable is not dependent on the "value" (cuantía in Spanish (CL)) of the case but instead depends on a fixed (per job) 'arancel (again, in CL)'.

IOW (for example only...), there's no "mark-up" on the fee for presenting a summons just because the property that's being embargoed is a USD 10 million mansion as compared to a worthless shack out in the prairie.

Jennifer Levey
Chile
Local time: 09:49
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 545

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