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obligación real

English translation: real obligation

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11:22 Mar 30, 2004
Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Bus/Financial - Law (general)
Spanish term or phrase: obligación real
An overseas taxpayer is only subject to the wealth tax in Spain by obligación real.
Eurodicautom lists this term with no translation, and Alcarez and Hughes don't give it.
Many thanks,
Linebyline
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:04
English translation:real obligation
Explanation:
This is the only definition given in Louis A. Robb. Wait and see if someone else can shed more light.
Selected response from:

Sheilann
Spain
Local time: 14:04
Grading comment
Graded automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +2real obligationSheilann
5obligation in rem
Antonio Castillo Gonz�lez
5(by virtue of) the tax levied on non-residents' personal incomeRebecca Jowers
3royal decree dutyGabo Pena
4 -1limited tax obligation (for non-residents)
Marian Greenfield


  

Answers


4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
obligación real
real obligation


Explanation:
This is the only definition given in Louis A. Robb. Wait and see if someone else can shed more light.

Sheilann
Spain
Local time: 14:04
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 146
Grading comment
Graded automatically based on peer agreement.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Parrot: For further reference: http://www.aeat.es/inf_rec_anuales/a99doc/infcom99.pdf , whereby this is said to have been delegated to the Comunidades Autónomas.
13 mins

agree  Sery: Definition of real obligation in this site -www.lectlaw.com/def2/o001.htm.
3 hrs
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30 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
obligación real
(by virtue of) the tax levied on non-residents' personal income


Explanation:
I would need to see the context sentence in Spanish but it could possibly be worded "An overseas taxpayer is only subject to wealth tax in Spain by virtue of the tax levied on non-residents' personal income." The definition from the Diccionario de Derecho de Luis Ribó (Barcelona, Bosch, 1995 reads: "OBLIGACIÓN REAL DE CONTRIBUIR EN EL IRPF-Están afectados por obligación real de contribuir en este impuesto las personas físicas que no tienen su residencia habitual en territorio español y que obtienen rendimientos o incrementos de patrimonio producidos en territorio español. Si operan en España mediante establecimiento permanente, tributarán por la totalidad de la renta imputable a dicho establecimiento. Si operan en España sin establecimiento permanente, tributarán de forma separada por cada devengo total o parcial de renta sometida a gravamen." (Ley del Impuesto sobre la renta de las personas físicas, artículos 11 y 16.)
Hope this works. I'm including the AEAT (Spain's IRS) webpage explaining the nature of this tax.




    Reference: http://.aeat.es/cgi-bin/aeat/INFORMA/AGENCIA/cuestion?TITULO...
Rebecca Jowers
Spain
Local time: 14:04
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 2054
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31 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
obligación real
limited tax obligation (for non-residents)


Explanation:
From
http://contenido.monster.es/des_prof/pais/trabajar_extranjer...

Pues bien, el trabajador desplazado al extranjero tributa en el país de destino por lo que se denomina "obligación real" y en su país de origen por "obligación personal": es el fenómeno conocido como doble imposición internacional o dicho de otro modo, que el trabajador deberá pagar impuestos dos veces, una vez en el país de destino - por los salarios percibidos allí - y por segunda vez en el país de origen por la totalidad de sus rentas e ingresos obtenidos.

En definitiva, que se pagan impuestos tanto en el extranjero como en España


marbella-invest.com
Glossary/dictionary (without claim for entirety - but a ... OBLIGACIÓN PERSONAL : unlimited
tax-duty (for residents). OBLIGACIÓN REAL : limited tax- duty (for non ...
www.marbella-invest.com/en/ImmoLexikonO_EN.htm - 10k - Supplemental Result - Cached - Similar pages

JOYESPAÑA SL
... contact us. Glossary. Travel. ... OBJECTO : object OBLIGACIÓN PERSONAL : unlimited tax-duty
(for residents). OBLIGACIÓN REAL : limited tax- duty (for non-residents). ...
www.joyespana.de/english/lexikonO.htm - 7k - Supplemental Result - Cached - Similar pages


Marian Greenfield
Local time: 08:04
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 1595

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Antonio Castillo Gonz�lez: First time I disagree with one of your suggestions. The glossaries you quote are wrong (one of them being a copy of the other, which has attempted to summarize the matter thinking in one particular case ).
8 mins
  -> Entirely possible I'm wrong... think this a better proposition than those that came before... your suggestion is a good possibility. Don't know enough about it to know if it's right... Saludos.
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32 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
obligación real
obligation in rem


Explanation:
Es otra posibilidad, que tiene la ventaja de ser unívoca.

De una sentencia del Tribunal Supremo de los EE.UU.:

"The power to collect the tax from property within the state is always exercised at the expense of the owner, even though a non-resident, and an obligation in rem is thus imposed on his ownership"
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vo...

Otras referencias:

52A. Notes on Acts and Laws PART I - [ Traduzca esta página ]
... same right. 4. A legal right creates an obligation which is either an obligation in rem or an obligation in personam. In what respects ...
www.ambedkar.org/ ambcd/52A.%20Notes%20on%20Acts%20and%20Laws%20PART%20I.htm - 101k - En caché - Páginas similares

[PDF] JUDGMENT OF THE COURT (Fifth Chamber) 11 December 2003 (1)
Formato de archivo: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Versión en HTML
... Government, the obligation on the owner to transfer legal ownership at a given time is a personal obligation and not an obligation in rem over immovable ...
www.dnoti.de/DOC/eugh/c364_01_en.pdf - Páginas similares


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Note added at 1 hr 8 mins (2004-03-30 12:31:39 GMT)
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Para conocer el concepto en español de \"obligación real\" (contrapuesto a \"obligación personal\"):

OBLIGACIONES REALES.
Bonecasse, Que existe en nuestro derecho positivo actual, bajo el nombre de obligaciones reales; obligaciones enteramente distintas, por una parte de las obligaciones personales u obligaciones propiamente dichas, y por otra parte de los derechos reales. Estas obligaciones consisten esencialmente en la necesidad por el deudor de ejecutar un acto positivo, exclusivamente en razón y en la medida de una cosa que detenta, dichas obligaciones se transmiten, en consecuencia, Ipso Iure a los detentadores sucesivos de la cosa, sin que en ningún caso se transformen, sean derechos reales como personales.

CARÁCTER ACCESORIO. La obligación real, según Bonecasse, es accesoria de un derecho real principal



LA OBLIGACION REAL O PROPTER REM EN OPOSICION A LA OBLIGACION EN GENERAL O PERSONAL.

Existen en el actual derecho positivo con el nombre de obligaciones reales o propter rem, obligaciones totalmente distintas, por una parte, de las personales u obligaciones propiamente dichas y, por otra, de los derechos reales. Estas obligaciones consisten en la necesidad que tiene el deudor de realizar un acto positivo, exclusivamente en razón y en la medida de una cosa que posee; en consecuencia dichas obligaciones se transmiten ipso jure, a los poseedores sucesivos de la cosa, sin que en ningún caso se transformen en derechos personales.

(De la Universidad Abierta, de México)

TEORIA GENERAL DE LA OBLIGACION Y SUS FUENTES.
... del patrimonio y que afectan a las cosas o bienes ... personal, por tanto en el derecho personal existe, entre el ... LA OBLIGACION REAL O PROPTER REM EN OPOSICION A LA ...
www.universidadabierta.edu.mx/Biblio/ G/Garcia%20Jose-Obligacion.htm - 101k - En caché - Páginas similares




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Note added at 1 hr 12 mins (2004-03-30 12:35:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Ahora me doy cuenta de que ambas citas de la Universidad Abierta son prácticamente la misma, aunque las obtuve de sitios diferentes, pero con el mismo origen. La que cita a Bonecasse la tomé de:

UNIVERSIDAD ABIERTA
... o un derecho de uso de las cosas y se ... real la misma naturaleza que tiene el derecho personal. ... La obligación real, según Bonecasse, es accesoria de un derecho ...
www.universidadabierta.edu.mx/ Biblio/C/Contreras%20Higinio-La%20obligacion.htm - 101k - En caché - Páginas similares
[ Más resultados de www.universidadabierta.edu.mx ]

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Note added at 3 hrs 30 mins (2004-03-30 14:53:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

\"obligation in rem\" is the antonym of \"right in rem\", which is widely documented on the Internet.

Rights entail obligations. Rights in rem entail obligations in rem.

\"in rem\" is a Latin expression meaning \"related to a thing\", as opposed to \"in personam\", which means \"related to a person\".

Similarly, there are \"in personam rights\" and \"in personam obligations\".

As regards \"obligations in rem\", they are also called \"in rem obligations\". Word order is irrelevant here (director general = general director).
I am adding two examples of use taken from official sources:

Civil Procedure Class Notes 8/26/03 - [ Traduzca esta página ]
... entered Maryland . Conceptually, we’re trying to figure out if debts are a personal obligation or in rem obligations. The Court ...
lawschool.mikeshecket.com/civpro/8-26-03.html - 34k - En caché - Páginas similares

[PDF] NOT PRECEDENTIAL UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS
Formato de archivo: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Versión en HTML
... That is, a bankruptcy may extinguish personal obligations, but not in rem obligations. Johnson v. Home State Bank, 501 US 78, 83-84 (1991). ...
vls.law.vill.edu/locator/3d/July2002/013248u.pdf - Páginas similares


http://www.google.es/search?hl=es&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q="right...

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Note added at 4 hrs 34 mins (2004-03-30 15:57:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The above explanations are rather technical or ethymological.

What the texts means to say in plain English is that \"you only pay wealth tax in Spain insofar as your property is located in Spain\", because the tax is imposed because of the property (i.e. the thing).

Obviously it is a \"limited tax obligation\" in that it does not affect properties located outside Spain. This is true, but it does not fully translate the term, which has many implications, especially regarding liens, as the property may be seized.

The bankruptcy, of course, discharged the debtor
from in personam liability, but it should have no effect on the in rem obligation represented by the lien. See Johnson v. Home State Bank,
No. 90-693 (June 10, 1991), slip op. 3-4.
http://www.usdoj.gov/osg/briefs/1990/sg900053.txt


Antonio Castillo Gonz�lez
Local time: 14:04
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in category: 156

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Sery: "in rem" is a technical term used only to designate proceedings or actions instituted 'against the thing', in contradiction to personal actions (in personam).
2 hrs
  -> Yes, I know what an "action in rem" is, but then, should we conclude that the US Supreme Court (see above) is mistaken? There are rights "in rem" and obligations "in rem", meaning that they are related to things rather than to persons.

agree  Lawrence Lilue
9 hrs
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7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
royal decree duty


Explanation:
as far as I can tell...

=8^J

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Note added at 2004-03-30 19:05:44 (GMT)
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or to the crown

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Note added at 2004-03-30 19:06:06 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

maybe this is where it\'s at

Gabo Pena
Local time: 05:04
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in category: 43
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