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a título oneroso o lucrativo

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16:00 Mar 23, 2002
Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents
Spanish term or phrase: a título oneroso o lucrativo
transmisiones de acciones realizadas a título oneroso o lucrativo

This is from a document from Spain. Normally you see "a título oneroso o gratuito" meaning "for payment or free of charge." I would think that "a título oneroso" means the same thing as "a título lucrativo" so how do we distinguish them?
Thomas West
Local time: 04:14
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Summary of answers provided
5 +1for payment or gain (or profit)
Henry Hinds
5 +1For a consideration = a título oneroso
Monica Colangelo
5so how do we distinguish them, then?Aurora Humarán
5on a payment basis or for profitManuel Cedeño Berrueta
5on a payment basis or for profitManuel Cedeño Berrueta
4 +1in exchange for consideration
Marian Greenfield
Summary of reference entries provided
oneroso o lucrativo
Rosa Paredes

Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


3 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
for payment or gain (or profit)


Explanation:
Try that.


    Exp.
Henry Hinds
United States
Local time: 02:14
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in pair: 26512
Grading comment
Turns out that "lucrativo" means "gratuito" here!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Bill Greendyk
4 mins
  -> Thanks, Bill!
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The asker has declined this answer
Comment: Turns out that "lucrativo" means "gratuito" here!

8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
in exchange for consideration


Explanation:
Tom, I think this is a case of a <twin> in Spanish where you don't want one in English and I think the above gets you around the issue.

hth
Sorry we're both spending a gorgeous Saturday working!!!!
msg

Marian Greenfield
Local time: 04:14
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 14613
Grading comment
Turns out that "a título lucrativo" means "a título gratuito

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Aurora Humarán
18 hrs
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The asker has declined this answer
Comment: Turns out that "a título lucrativo" means "a título gratuito

1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
For a consideration = a título oneroso


Explanation:
A título oneroso means that something (a consideration) is given in return for a promise. "It does not necessarily have to have monetary value. Consideration will support a promise, if the condition of the promise is that the person to whom it is made agrees to do something in return or to refrain from doing something." (Your Introduction to Law)

A título lucrativo means "for profit".
There is a bit of a difference...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-03-23 22:17:54 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

lucrativo, va.
(Del lat. lucratīvus).

1. adj. Que produce utilidad y ganancia.


    Legal Translator, 26 yrs' exp. today!
Monica Colangelo
Argentina
Local time: 05:14
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in pair: 1014
Grading comment
Lucrativo means "gratuito" here--see above!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Sery
2 hrs
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The asker has declined this answer
Comment: Lucrativo means "gratuito" here--see above!

7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
on a payment basis or for profit


Explanation:
Hi, Tom,
As the other colleagues suggest, and in spite of Seco’s and the other author’s dictionaries you have found, I do think that the use of “lucrativo” meaning “gratuito” is a real oddity which very few Spanish-speakers, either lawyers or non-lawyers, would understand. For this latter meaning we say “a título de donación.”
In your case, I would translate “on a payment basis or for profit.”
Ref: native speaker + experience
Best regards,
Manuel


Manuel Cedeño Berrueta
Local time: 04:14
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in pair: 1094
Grading comment
Lucrativo means gratuito in Spain.
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The asker has declined this answer
Comment: Lucrativo means gratuito in Spain.

7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
on a payment basis or for profit


Explanation:
Hi, Tom,
As the other colleagues suggest, and in spite of Seco’s and the other author’s dictionaries you have found, I do think that the use of “lucrativo” meaning “gratuito” is a real oddity which very few Spanish-speakers, either lawyers or non-lawyers, would understand. For this latter meaning we say “a título de donación.”
In your case, I would translate “on a payment basis or for profit.”
Ref: native speaker + experience
Best regards,
Manuel


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-03-24 02:17:11 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry for the repetion. I was unaware of it. Manuel

Manuel Cedeño Berrueta
Local time: 04:14
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in pair: 1094
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The asker has declined this answer

1 day22 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
so how do we distinguish them, then?


Explanation:
Hello Thomas:

Above you have a pair of good alternatives to chose from, but I´d like to add this:

Esto es un buen ejemplo de retórica del español, una especie de doublet... I would say.

The lawyers who work with me say that you can either say: a título oneroso or a título lucrativo (this last being less common) Some lawyers use both of them. They mean exactly the same.

Muchos saludos de una admiradora!

Aurora

Aurora Humarán
Argentina
Local time: 05:14
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in pair: 395
Grading comment
LUCRATIVO significa GRATUITO. Ver titulo lucrativo en DRAE
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The asker has declined this answer
Comment: LUCRATIVO significa GRATUITO. Ver titulo lucrativo en DRAE




Reference comments


3886 days
Reference: oneroso o lucrativo

Reference information:
adj. Que produce ganancia o provecho:
negocio lucrativo
http://www.wordreference.com/definicion/lucrativo

En Derecho, con la expresión «a título gratuito» o «a título lucrativo» se hace referencia a aquellos negocios jurídicos en los que el beneficio de una de las partes no está acompañado de ningún sacrificio que sea su contrapartida, es decir, una persona recibe algo pero no tiene que dar o hacer nada a cambio. Así, por ejemplo, son negocios a título gratuito la donación, el mutuo sin interés o el mandato gratuito. Se contrapone a «título oneroso»

Título Lucrativo es el que proviene de un acto de liberalidad, como la donación o el legado, sin conmutación recíproca.

Título Oneroso: El que supone recíprocas prestaciones entre los que adquieren y transmiten.
Fuente(s):
www.prolegislegal.com

www.enciclopedia-juridica.biz14.com/...onerosos.../actos-on... suele distinguir entre actos oneroso y gratuitos (también denominados estos últimos «a título lucrativo» o «a título de liberalidad»), según que la atribución ...

Rosa Paredes
Chile
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in pair: 982
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