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marina y terrenal

English translation: maritime and earthy

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Spanish term or phrase:marina y terrenal
English translation:maritime and earthy
Entered by: Charles Davis
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12:45 Feb 24, 2012
Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature / help!
Spanish term or phrase: marina y terrenal
This is by Antonio Gala:

"Así es Valencia. Abierta,
húmeda y maternal. Como una rosa
nutricia y olorosa,
marina y terrenal, suave y alerta."

What can I say? All my ideas fall flat. Any suggestions?
Parrot
Spain
Local time: 14:40
maritime and earthy
Explanation:
Here's what's led me to this. In these situations you're always weighing one consideration against another. The decision is a matter of priorities.

1. I think it's very desirable, if possible, to use adjectives. The original is a succession of pairs of adjectives and it would be nice to emulate the almost hypnotic enumerative effect of this. If you change to nouns for this pair it interrupts the flow in this respect.

2. I regard the rhythm here as very important. There is an internal rhyme in "rosa/olorosa", but it can't be preserved and I don't think that matters. But to me the rhythm matters a lot. After "nurturing and fragrant", I think "maritime and earthy", with exactly the same rhythm, goes very well from this point of view.

3. Rhythm is the first thing that makes me prefer "maritime" to "marine", but I think "maritime" is suitable for other reasons; it means adjacent to the sea (a maritime region), and also suggests seafaring: Valencia being open to the sea.

4. I see "earthy" is what you've provisionally chosen, and I like it. "Earthly" would be a more literal choice, and "terrenal" is commonly opposed to "celestial", but it also suggests worldly, down to earth, rooted in the earth, as it were. "Earthy" captures some of these implications.

5. Any choice has drawbacks, mine included, of course, but I think the great thing to avoid here is over-interpreting. It needs something short and binary that captures the character of Valencia in as near as possible the terms of the original.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2012-02-24 22:19:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Thanks! To be honest, I like it a bit less than I did when I posted it. I find Carol's version quite persuasive. But I'm not sure.

I keep wondering quite what Gala meant by "terrenal". I completely agree about "earthly in a crass sense" — worldly, if you like: showy, ostentatious, materialist. That's "terrenal" in its proper sense, constrasted with "celestial" (Castilian mysticism and asceticism, that other cliché). This idea is surely present. In fact I also intended the suggestion of vulgarity in "earthy"; there is something vulgar about Valencia (I speak as a resident). But as well as "tierra/cielo", there's also "tierra/mar". The first leads you to "earth", the second to "land". Gala can have both, but we have to choose one or the other. In the end I lean towards "earth". Yes, beyond agriculture and the huerta, there's also something deeper, something chthonic.

You must be right about the regional costume; in a few weeks the streets will be full of Dama de Elche lookalikes, with the quaint twirly bits on the sides of their heads. That is when many of us leave town, if we can: the "diáspora fallera", as a friend of mine put it the other day.
Selected response from:

Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 14:40
Grading comment
Further context considered (this appears in a chapter about the bat being the city mascot), I think I better leave it at this. But I really loved all the contributions and would thank you all. Quote it in another context and the version would probably change, everything's valid.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
3 +5(of) land and sea
Simon Bruni
4 +2marine and terrestrial
Helena Chavarria
3 +2seascapes and landscapes
James A. Walsh
3 +2maritime and earthy
Charles Davis
4oceanic and earthy
esing
3 +1where land and sea unite/meet/merge/combine...
Carol Gullidge
3seagoing and landlockedMargarita Osborn Belt
2coast and farmland
DLyons


Discussion entries: 33





  

Answers


5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +5
(of) land and sea


Explanation:
Personally I'm not keen on "marine and earthly"

Simon Bruni
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:40
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 151

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Marian Vieyra
14 mins
  -> Thanks, Marian

agree  Lorraine Bathurst: sounds poetic to me
42 mins
  -> Thanks, Lorraine

agree  philgoddard
1 hr
  -> thanks, Phil

agree  Richard Hill
3 hrs
  -> Thanks, Rich

agree  eski
11 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

9 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
marina y terrenal
seascapes and landscapes


Explanation:
Is about the only thing I can think of...


    Reference: http://www.google.es/search?q=%22seascapes+and+landscapes%22...
James A. Walsh
Spain
Local time: 14:40
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in category: 44

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  DLyons
15 mins
  -> Thanks D.

agree  Margarita Osborn Belt: I've just noticed that your solution is almost identical to mine but better, James!
39 mins
  -> Thanks a lot, Margarita! :)
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16 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
where land and sea unite/meet/merge/combine...


Explanation:
or any synonym of the above (unite, meet, merge, etc.)

________

you didn't mention if this needs to rhyme or scan...

Carol Gullidge
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:40
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 311

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Marian Vieyra: or just land and sea combined
2 mins
  -> many thanks Marian! good idea - or even "the fusion of land and sea"
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26 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
coast and farmland


Explanation:
A key element being fertility.

DLyons
Ireland
Local time: 13:40
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 35
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

40 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
seagoing and landlocked


Explanation:
I agree that what you need here is the "rap beat", so my suggestion is short and symmetrical. I agree that it would be easier if we had the rest of your translation but my suggestion might fit into something along the lines of "like a rose nourishing and alluring, seagoing and landlocked, soft and alert".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 46 mins (2012-02-24 13:32:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

My impression is that the poem refers to Valencia being a coastal town where fishing and farming are equally important. I don't really see where fertility comes into the picture, unless it's because the land is fertile.

Margarita Osborn Belt
Local time: 14:40
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in SpanishSpanish
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40 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
marine and terrestrial


Explanation:
I'm sorry but I can see a definite rhyming pattern. This is what I would say.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 54 mins (2012-02-24 13:40:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Yes, but I would save the adjustments for when they just can't be avoided. It's like I think would say "poised" for "alerta".

Helena Chavarria
Spain
Local time: 14:40
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 16
Notes to answerer
Asker: I see it too, but the scansion used makes it adjustable.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  ana carolina pedrozo: Yeah, this is more appropriate because it must contain the meaning and sound like poetry.
2 hrs
  -> Thank you, Ana!

agree  Barbara L Pavlik
2 hrs
  -> Thank you, Barbara!
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
maritime and earthy


Explanation:
Here's what's led me to this. In these situations you're always weighing one consideration against another. The decision is a matter of priorities.

1. I think it's very desirable, if possible, to use adjectives. The original is a succession of pairs of adjectives and it would be nice to emulate the almost hypnotic enumerative effect of this. If you change to nouns for this pair it interrupts the flow in this respect.

2. I regard the rhythm here as very important. There is an internal rhyme in "rosa/olorosa", but it can't be preserved and I don't think that matters. But to me the rhythm matters a lot. After "nurturing and fragrant", I think "maritime and earthy", with exactly the same rhythm, goes very well from this point of view.

3. Rhythm is the first thing that makes me prefer "maritime" to "marine", but I think "maritime" is suitable for other reasons; it means adjacent to the sea (a maritime region), and also suggests seafaring: Valencia being open to the sea.

4. I see "earthy" is what you've provisionally chosen, and I like it. "Earthly" would be a more literal choice, and "terrenal" is commonly opposed to "celestial", but it also suggests worldly, down to earth, rooted in the earth, as it were. "Earthy" captures some of these implications.

5. Any choice has drawbacks, mine included, of course, but I think the great thing to avoid here is over-interpreting. It needs something short and binary that captures the character of Valencia in as near as possible the terms of the original.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2012-02-24 22:19:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Thanks! To be honest, I like it a bit less than I did when I posted it. I find Carol's version quite persuasive. But I'm not sure.

I keep wondering quite what Gala meant by "terrenal". I completely agree about "earthly in a crass sense" — worldly, if you like: showy, ostentatious, materialist. That's "terrenal" in its proper sense, constrasted with "celestial" (Castilian mysticism and asceticism, that other cliché). This idea is surely present. In fact I also intended the suggestion of vulgarity in "earthy"; there is something vulgar about Valencia (I speak as a resident). But as well as "tierra/cielo", there's also "tierra/mar". The first leads you to "earth", the second to "land". Gala can have both, but we have to choose one or the other. In the end I lean towards "earth". Yes, beyond agriculture and the huerta, there's also something deeper, something chthonic.

You must be right about the regional costume; in a few weeks the streets will be full of Dama de Elche lookalikes, with the quaint twirly bits on the sides of their heads. That is when many of us leave town, if we can: the "diáspora fallera", as a friend of mine put it the other day.

Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 14:40
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 228
Grading comment
Further context considered (this appears in a chapter about the bat being the city mascot), I think I better leave it at this. But I really loved all the contributions and would thank you all. Quote it in another context and the version would probably change, everything's valid.
Notes to answerer
Asker: I like it. I can only think of Valencia as "earthly" in a crass sense - it's mercantile by tradition. But I've spent hours looking at the Dama de Elche and thinking "chthon", in the deepest sense. (They must've based the regional costume on her look). Short and binary...


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Marian Martin
4 mins
  -> Thanks, Marian!

agree  franglish
2 hrs
  -> Thanks, franglish!
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

15 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
oceanic and earthy


Explanation:
nearer to original

esing
India
Local time: 18:10
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in TamilTamil
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  James A. Walsh: The Mediterranean is a sea, not an ocean.
8 hrs
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Changes made by editors
Feb 27, 2012 - Changes made by Charles Davis:
Created KOG entryKudoZ term » KOG term


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