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trastienda ontológica

English translation: underlying nature

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Spanish term or phrase:trastienda ontológica
English translation:underlying nature
Entered by: Maria Mastruzzo
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01:18 Aug 29, 2014
Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc.
Spanish term or phrase: trastienda ontológica
Continuando con una pregunta anterior, estas palabras son parte del nombre de una tesis que aparece en un diploma de Doctorado de Administración de Argentina.
El nombre completo del título de la tesis es: "La trastienda ontológica de los aglomerados en la Argentina. Imaginario e innovación".
El cliente explicó que en la tesis "construyó una teoría para comprender la relación entre la capacidad de innovación de un aglomerado productivo y el imaginario de los actores empresariales que integran el aglomerado".

Muchas gracias por sus sugerencias.
Maria Mastruzzo
Australia
Local time: 19:32
underlying nature
Explanation:
I suppose you could argue that since the author has chosen to use a word like "ontológica", we should use "ontological" in English. I am suggesting a different approach, partly because I find it difficult to think of a suitable noun for "trastienda", and partly because "ontological ____" in this context really sounds a bit ridiculous in English, to be brutally frank. "Trastienda" presumably means what is behind the scenes, not immediately apparent. "Underlying" seems to me to convey that idea.

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Note added at 1 hr (2014-08-29 02:24:04 GMT)
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I don't think "trastienda" implies anything underhand here.

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Note added at 10 hrs (2014-08-29 11:59:09 GMT)
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You certainly could put "underlying ontology" if you think it's necessary to emulate the Spanish terminology. But I still think this would be a mistake.

Let's be clear about what "ontológica" actually means. Ontology is a philosophical term referring to the metaphysical study of the nature of being and existence. In Spanish, ontología is defined in the DRAE as "Parte de la metafísica que trata del ser en general y de sus propiedades trascendentales".

Perhaps this really is a metaphysical study of business clusters, but it seems very unlikely indeed to me. What seems very likely is that the author is using "ontológica" to mean "related to the being or nature of". In other words, he or she is doing what Spanish-speaking academic authors (and especially those trying to establish their intellectual credentials) are prone to do, and using a high-flown term to express a relatively simple idea. I would be prepared to bet that the thesis is actually about the nature of "aglomerados productivos" and how they really work. It is a business administration thesis, not a philosophy thesis.

Now in this respect, practice is different in English. English academic discourse is very jargon-ridden, but the jargon tends to be related to theories within the area of study in question. Unless the approach is genuinely metaphysical, a word like "ontology" or "ontological" would not be used in an English thesis title in this field, in my opinion. If I were the supervisor I would require it to be changed, not because it's pretentious but because it's (almost certainly) a misuse of the word.

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Note added at 11 hrs (2014-08-29 12:25:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

José's comment is interesting, however. "Ontological work" seems to me completely unviable, but perhaps it does refer to the entities involved in aglomerados. If so, you might translate it as "underlying entities". But unless we have access to the thesis itself we can't tell whether that is really what it means, and I am not very confident that it is.
Selected response from:

Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 09:32
Grading comment
Thank you very much, Charles, for your contribution and detailed explanation.

Thank you for all the valuable contributions.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
3 +4underlying nature
Charles Davis
4ontological background / backstage
Marina Ilari
3The fundamental philsophy/thinking/reasoning behind business clusters in Argentina.
Marian Vieyra
3The back-office ontological work [of corporate groups in Argentina]
Jose Lobos
3ontological backyard
Chris Neill
Summary of reference entries provided
trastiendaphilgoddard

  

Answers


2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
The back-office ontological work [of corporate groups in Argentina]


Explanation:
La trastienda ontológica de los aglomerados en la Argentina
--->
The back-office ontological work [of corporate groups in Argentina]

COMENTARIO: La "ontología" de una institución (aglomerados en este caso) trata de los "entes", tanto internos externos, que participan en sus procesos, y cómo estos se relacionan e interactúan para cumplir con una misión.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2014-08-29 04:09:35 GMT)
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CORRECIÓN: En el comentario, léase "tanto internos COMO externos"

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Note added at 2 hrs (2014-08-29 04:12:21 GMT)
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Definition of BACK-OFFICE
: of or relating to the inner workings of a business or institution : internal <back–office operations>

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/back office


    Reference: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ontological
    Reference: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/back%20room
Jose Lobos
Guatemala
Local time: 02:32
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
Notes to answerer
Asker: Muchas gracias, José, tomaré en cuenta tu explicación.

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6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
ontological backyard


Explanation:
Backyard/backstore

As a title for a thesis I dont think that just relaying the meaning is really enough. It's obvious that a lot of thought has gone into the title so justice needs to be done with it.

When they refer to "trastienda ontológica" I imagine something "hidden" out back or something lacking in productive cluster ontology and maybe the aim of the thesis is to do a "house clean" of the backyard.

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Note added at 7 hrs (2014-08-29 08:22:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I'm imagining a backyard or backstore of a small shop where the tins and cans are piled high, waiting for someone to remove the packaging, order and organise and then stack them on the shelves...this is what this evokes in me (which of course doesn't mean it is the original intention of the author)

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Note added at 8 hrs (2014-08-29 09:19:01 GMT)
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I think you would be wise to contact the author..I believe "trastienda" is an analogy for something...maybe a lack of organised ontology is this field...that's why it invokes in my the idea of a higgledy piggledy backstore/ backyard.

But really only the author can know this for sure...worth contacting them if you can

Chris Neill
Spain
Local time: 09:32
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you for your suggestion and thoughts, Chris. I'll try and see if the client can be more specific regarding the topic of the thesis, because only the title has to be translated.

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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +4
underlying nature


Explanation:
I suppose you could argue that since the author has chosen to use a word like "ontológica", we should use "ontological" in English. I am suggesting a different approach, partly because I find it difficult to think of a suitable noun for "trastienda", and partly because "ontological ____" in this context really sounds a bit ridiculous in English, to be brutally frank. "Trastienda" presumably means what is behind the scenes, not immediately apparent. "Underlying" seems to me to convey that idea.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2014-08-29 02:24:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I don't think "trastienda" implies anything underhand here.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 hrs (2014-08-29 11:59:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

You certainly could put "underlying ontology" if you think it's necessary to emulate the Spanish terminology. But I still think this would be a mistake.

Let's be clear about what "ontológica" actually means. Ontology is a philosophical term referring to the metaphysical study of the nature of being and existence. In Spanish, ontología is defined in the DRAE as "Parte de la metafísica que trata del ser en general y de sus propiedades trascendentales".

Perhaps this really is a metaphysical study of business clusters, but it seems very unlikely indeed to me. What seems very likely is that the author is using "ontológica" to mean "related to the being or nature of". In other words, he or she is doing what Spanish-speaking academic authors (and especially those trying to establish their intellectual credentials) are prone to do, and using a high-flown term to express a relatively simple idea. I would be prepared to bet that the thesis is actually about the nature of "aglomerados productivos" and how they really work. It is a business administration thesis, not a philosophy thesis.

Now in this respect, practice is different in English. English academic discourse is very jargon-ridden, but the jargon tends to be related to theories within the area of study in question. Unless the approach is genuinely metaphysical, a word like "ontology" or "ontological" would not be used in an English thesis title in this field, in my opinion. If I were the supervisor I would require it to be changed, not because it's pretentious but because it's (almost certainly) a misuse of the word.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2014-08-29 12:25:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

José's comment is interesting, however. "Ontological work" seems to me completely unviable, but perhaps it does refer to the entities involved in aglomerados. If so, you might translate it as "underlying entities". But unless we have access to the thesis itself we can't tell whether that is really what it means, and I am not very confident that it is.

Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 09:32
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 112
Grading comment
Thank you very much, Charles, for your contribution and detailed explanation.

Thank you for all the valuable contributions.
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you, Charles. I agree with you, I think "trastienda" here is used in the way you suggest, so "underlying" seems quite appropriate. The author used the word "ontológica" but your suggestion makes more sense to me.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  neilmac: Keep It Simple...
3 hrs
  -> Thanks, Neil :) Spanish is much more tolerant of words like "ontological" than English.

agree  Robert Forstag: They key here is in your response to Neilmac: "ontologico" is far more common in Spanish than "ontological" is in English, and often is best translated by an ordinary English word.
9 hrs
  -> Thanks, Robert. I'm glad you agree. That principle operates in many cases, I think. Spanish weather forecasters never fail to refer to "el archipiélago canario", where in English we would simply say the Canary Islands.

neutral  Marina Ilari: In English, as in Spanish, science has an ontology, an epistemology, a methodology and a technique. Therefore, he is clearly meaning to the ontology of the phenomena he is studying, I don't see why it should be ridiculous.
11 hrs
  -> Well, I can only say that it sounds ridiculous to me as an (academic) native speaker. In English it would be very unusual to refer to the ontology of phenomena in this context; it would only be done in philosophy of science.

agree  Marian Vieyra
12 hrs
  -> Thanks, Marian!

agree  Elizabeth Joy Pitt de Morales: I think it's simple, clear and elegant.
13 hrs
  -> Many thank, Elizabeth :)
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12 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
ontological background / backstage


Explanation:
En inglés usarías background, en artículos académicos se utilizan menos recursos que pueden tener sentido en Argentina, iría por una opción más despojada pero al mismo tiempo precisa. Sin embargo, si quisieras conservar todo el sentido original, creo que backstage es una buena opción, claramente se refiere a la ontología del proceso social detrás del fenómeno que estudia, lo más cercano a trastienda en el sentido que le damos en Argentina es backstage en tanto procesos que anteceden "entre bambalinas" al fenómeno observado.

Marina Ilari
United States
Local time: 02:32
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
Notes to answerer
Asker: Muchas gracias por tu contribución, Marina


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Marian Vieyra: I'm particularly 'neutral' about 'backstage'.
1 hr
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14 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
The fundamental philsophy/thinking/reasoning behind business clusters in Argentina.


Explanation:
Or even the 'fundamental metaphysics of business clusters in Argentina' . It seems the author wants the title, at least, to intrigue and draw the reader in.

Unfortunately, I fear that English-speaking academics, as Charles said, might scoff at the word 'ontological'.

I agree with Charles and prefer his take on how to translate this concept. I'm just offering another suggestion.

Have a look at the thesaurus reference to find a more "English" interpretation of the word 'ontology'


    Reference: http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/ontology
Marian Vieyra
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:32
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 7
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you very much for your explanation, Marian

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Reference comments


57 mins
Reference: trastienda

Reference information:
I'm not sure which of this meanings is relevant here.


    Reference: http://dictionary.reverso.net/spanish-english/trastienda
philgoddard
United States
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 24
Note to reference poster
Asker: I am not sure either, but do you think that in this particular case it could be "background"? Because "transtienda" may have a negative connotation but that cannot be applied here.

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