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Glossary entry

Swedish term or phrase:

tomtmark

English translation:

plot of land (private property)

Added to glossary by Charlesp
Apr 10, 2013 10:35
11 yrs ago
5 viewers *
Swedish term

tomtmark

Swedish to English Other Real Estate
In an orienteering programme, listing out-of-bounds areas. Is this "private land" or "residential land" or somesuch?
Thanks,
Oliver
Proposed translations (English)
4 private property (plot of land)
4 +1 building site
4 +1 zoned and subdivided land approved for development
4 private land
3 curtilage
Change log

Apr 11, 2013 13:41: Charlesp Created KOG entry

Discussion

Charlesp Apr 11, 2013:
Allemansrätten 'Allemansrätten, as old as the concept is, takes away the meaning of "private land" as in "private property." For land that is covered by allemansrätten is no longer private property (even if it is privately owned).
So if they are orienteering in privately owned forests, they are not committing a tresspass, as one could say that is it not "private land."
Richard Green Apr 10, 2013:
HA! That made me laugh, Chris! We need more of this on KudoZ ... it does make the day go quicker.
Chris Says Bye Apr 10, 2013:
So effectively it means keep out of people's gardens
Norskpro Apr 10, 2013:
Unbuilt property I would say that it is the unbuilt area of a property, whether privately owned or not.
Kristian Andersson Apr 10, 2013:
Agree with Deane Oliver: I think you should be a bit careful calling it 'private land' as they may well be orienteering in privately owned forests.

Here are some links that might help:

'Allemansrätten gives a person the right to access, walk, cycle, ride, ski, and camp on any land—with the exception of private gardens, the immediate vicinity of a dwelling house and land under cultivation.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam

'Restricted areas are also gardens, cultivated sites, or, constructions made by the owner.'
http://www.sverigeturism.se/smorgasbord/smorgasbord/natrecsp...

'For example, you must not intrude on the grounds of a house or cross cultivated ground.'
http://www.naturvardsverket.se/en/Enjoying-nature/The-Right-...
Oliver Dirs (asker) Apr 10, 2013:
I agree Deane, I think that "tomtmark" here is the opposite of allmän mark. So I guess "private land", "private grounds"? It's not referring to a buliding site./Oliver
Deane Goltermann Apr 10, 2013:
private lot Isn't all that wrong in your context. When people want to walk in the woods using 'allemansrätten' here in Swe, they are not allowed to trespass on someone's 'tomtmark', which is the lot where their summer cottage, or similar is. If the private property extends several hectares into the 'woods', others can walk there. In the nearby forest where I live, the 'tomtmark' is the zoned/planned lots where people live, even when these extend into the forested area. The orienteering club sets up its trails away from these, deeper in the forest, which is not zoned/planned for housing or building.

Proposed translations

1 day 2 hrs
Selected

private property (plot of land)

A tomtmark is a plot of land. Land where a building is on it or may in the future be placed on it; as contrasted with agricultural land or a nature preserve or a forest, etc.

In this particular context, I think it simply means "private property." (and I might add, not privately owned property that is subject to allemansrätten (the rights of general access).
Something went wrong...
2 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks/Oliver"
+1
2 mins

building site

"Building site" according to Nyströms and Norstedts.

Hope this helps!
Peer comment(s):
agree JaneD : Sounds right to me!
2 mins
Thank you, Jane!
agree Helen Johnson : and Gullberg
5 mins
Thanks Helen!
neutral Deane Goltermann : Will say that tomtmark' a lot that is zone/planned for building on. But it is not a 'site' where people are actually doing the work. I've disagreed with Norstedts on other misses they've made.
14 mins
I picked up on this too, but figured that "building site" can also loosely be interpreted as a "site for building on", although I understand that most people will not understand it in this sense.
agree George Hopkins : Yes, or building sites.
2 hrs
Many thanks, George.
disagree Norskpro : A building site is where there is building work going on.
2 hrs
disagree Sven Petersson : As Norskpro
2 hrs
Something went wrong...
1 hr

curtilage

I'm not sure there will be an equivalent. However, as a sometime orienteer, erstwhile lawyer and now translator, I think "curtilage" might work.
It's a term that is the basis for a lot of Fourth Amendment law here in the U.S. regarding the necessity of obtaining search warrants. (But it might be too small an area as well.) See the first link for a Wikipedia discussion.

From "Begrepp i bygg- och fastighetssektorn", at the second link, page 120:

"Den indelning av mark som sker vid fastighetstaxering. Marken indelas i följande ägoslag: tomtmark, täktmark, åkermark, betesmark, skogsmark, skogsimpediment och övrig mark."

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Note added at 1 hr (2013-04-10 12:29:44 GMT)
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The more I read of the following brochure, the more convinced I am that "curtilage" works just fine in reflecting the meaning and the inherent ambiguity of "tomtmark" – "Allemansrätten – Vad säger lagen?" http://www.geonord.org/law/pdf/alleman03.pdf

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Note added at 2 hrs (2013-04-10 12:38:56 GMT)
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Hi Oliver,
You may well be right. Perhaps "public entry prohibited" then? (Note, however, that the Scots use "curtilage" in a piece on access rights written for the public – http://www.snh.gov.uk/docs/A309336.pdf. )

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Note added at 2 hrs (2013-04-10 12:58:11 GMT)
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Okay, last attempt (I swear). The IOF used to use "private area" in its list of examples of "Area with forbidden access" – http://orienteering.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Internati... at page 20. I think the IOF standard for the map symbol in question has since been simplified, but "private area" should still work well, especially for experienced orienteers.
Example sentence:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtilage

Reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtilage

http://www.lth.se/fileadmin/byggnadsekonomi/education/Begrepp070728.pdf

Note from asker:
Thanks Charles, it may fit technically but this is for an orienteering programme. I'm not sure anyone would know what "curtilage" meant./Oliver
Something went wrong...
+1
3 hrs

zoned and subdivided land approved for development

residential or industrial
Peer comment(s):
agree Charlesp : could be (but not necessarily so).
22 hrs
Something went wrong...
2 hrs

private land

Wikipedia: Man skiljer mellan tomtmark och allmän mark.

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Note added at 3 hrs (2013-04-10 13:52:02 GMT)
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The sample sentences (abruptly cut off, here..) is from the reference.

Example sentence:

Nå, men hur vet man vad som är tomtmark? Tomten kan sägas vara marken närmast i första hand bostadshus. Tomten är det område där man har rätt till hemfrid. Det är där man har sina gräsmattor, ansar sina rabatter, sitter i sin hammock och grill

Reference:

http://www.sssk.se/kunnande/allemansratt/

Note from asker:
Thanks, this was a useful answer. I'm not that up on how Kudoz works. I allocated 2 points to CharlesP's answer and had intended to also allocate you 2 points but I don't think I can split the points, apologies! If you know how I can do this please let me know!/Olliver
Peer comment(s):
disagree Sven Petersson : 70 Google hits on "kommunen säljer tomtmark" proves you wrong.
33 mins
I guess it does.
agree Charlesp : Could be.
23 hrs
Something went wrong...
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