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farsi

English translation: farsi

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12:15 Dec 14, 2003
Turkish to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Linguistics
Turkish term or phrase: farsi
Should there be a dot on the i, or no dot?
Is this the word for the Persian/Farsi language? And does it have any other meaning?

In Greek, if you speak a language "farsi", it means you speak it perfectly, fluently.
Does the word have this meaning in Turkish too, or did it have this meaning in the past? If so, does anyone know how the word "farsi" came to be used in this way?
Dylan Edwards
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:30
English translation:farsi
Explanation:
-Farsi is written with a dot; that is with the letter "i" as it's also used in the Western alphabets, but not with "ı" which is another character peculiar to the Turkish alphabet. Hence,

in lowercase --> Farsi
in uppercase --> FARSİ

(though I doubt if you can view "ı" and "İ" properly on your browser)

-"Farsi" is an old [Ottoman] word meaning "the Persian language," "Persian people", "belonging to the Persian province of Fars". (Also --> "Farısî)

-In modern Turkish "Farsi" is no longer in use. The name of the language is "Farsça", the name of the country is "İran", and that of the people is "İranlı."

-It neither has any sense denoting "fluency" nor "childlike". The only other meaning is, according to the TDK -the authorized- dictionary is:

[archaic adjective] carpentry style; meaning "with the corner cut off"

-Fars also means "farce" in Turkish, maybe this has led to some confusion.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-12-14 15:43:51 (GMT)
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one more comment to share:

Another Turkish word for Persian, which is no longer in use is Acem. Today, as far as I can tell, we only use it in \"Acem halısı\"-->\"Persian carpet\". Acc.to the Redhouse Turkish>English dictionary, the original meaning of the word is \"non-Arab, the non-Arabic speaking world, the Persians\". But today when you say \"Acem\", a Turkish-speaker would think of it as \"Persian\", though it\'s no more used. In the same dictionary I\'ve found this definition for \"acemi\" (here the suffix \"-i\" serves the same function as the -ian or -ish in English; e.g. Proz --> Prozian or Turk --> Turkish): 1) Speaking Arabic incorrectly, barbarous, foreigner 2) Dumb, speechess, mute. (Interesting, isn\'t it? :-))

Today the word \"acemi\" means: beginner; inexperienced; raw; novice; clumsy\" However, it\'s not an offensive word, for example the new recruits in the army make up the \"acemi units\", nor has it any connotations with Iran - not any more, at least.

Hope this helps.
Best.

Selected response from:

Özden Arıkan
Germany
Local time: 01:30
Grading comment
Thank you very much. Very interesting. Recent forum discussion about Farsi/Persian reminded me of this question which has intrigued me for some time: farsi (stressed on the 2nd syllable) is used as an adverb in Modern Greek - "fluently, faultlessly" - and at least two dictionaries say it's derived from a Turkish word "farsi".
Thanks to the other answerers too, for extra details.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +5farsi
Özden Arıkan
5 +3FarsçaJohn Peterson
4Ottoman periodAli YANDIK


  

Answers


18 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +3
Farsça


Explanation:
Farsça is Persian (the language) and Fars is Persian. The ca/ce suffix (or ça/çe if the final letter of the base is a voiceless consonant) is used to denote a language (although it has other meanings as well e.g.çocukça is childlike).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-12-14 13:38:25 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

An afterthought about \"farsi\" implying fluent. In the past, Persian was widely used as an administrative language; extending as far as India so, as some sort of \"lingua franca\", it might have carried a connotation of fluency.

John Peterson
Local time: 00:30
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Will Matter
3 hrs
  -> Thanks. I did mean the suffix. In any case, Xola's answer is a lot better.

agree  Recep Recepov: Frasça. Farsların kendisi de "Zeboni Farsi" diyor kendi dillerine. Farsi demek hem Farsça'da, hem de Arapça'da Fars Dili ya da Farsça demektir.Yine de, bizde, Türkmenler'de John'ın verdiği örnek gibi çocuklar ile ilgili olarak "Parsılamak" kelimesi var.
19 hrs

agree  senin
82 days
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +5
farsi


Explanation:
-Farsi is written with a dot; that is with the letter "i" as it's also used in the Western alphabets, but not with "ı" which is another character peculiar to the Turkish alphabet. Hence,

in lowercase --> Farsi
in uppercase --> FARSİ

(though I doubt if you can view "ı" and "İ" properly on your browser)

-"Farsi" is an old [Ottoman] word meaning "the Persian language," "Persian people", "belonging to the Persian province of Fars". (Also --> "Farısî)

-In modern Turkish "Farsi" is no longer in use. The name of the language is "Farsça", the name of the country is "İran", and that of the people is "İranlı."

-It neither has any sense denoting "fluency" nor "childlike". The only other meaning is, according to the TDK -the authorized- dictionary is:

[archaic adjective] carpentry style; meaning "with the corner cut off"

-Fars also means "farce" in Turkish, maybe this has led to some confusion.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-12-14 15:43:51 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

one more comment to share:

Another Turkish word for Persian, which is no longer in use is Acem. Today, as far as I can tell, we only use it in \"Acem halısı\"-->\"Persian carpet\". Acc.to the Redhouse Turkish>English dictionary, the original meaning of the word is \"non-Arab, the non-Arabic speaking world, the Persians\". But today when you say \"Acem\", a Turkish-speaker would think of it as \"Persian\", though it\'s no more used. In the same dictionary I\'ve found this definition for \"acemi\" (here the suffix \"-i\" serves the same function as the -ian or -ish in English; e.g. Proz --> Prozian or Turk --> Turkish): 1) Speaking Arabic incorrectly, barbarous, foreigner 2) Dumb, speechess, mute. (Interesting, isn\'t it? :-))

Today the word \"acemi\" means: beginner; inexperienced; raw; novice; clumsy\" However, it\'s not an offensive word, for example the new recruits in the army make up the \"acemi units\", nor has it any connotations with Iran - not any more, at least.

Hope this helps.
Best.



Özden Arıkan
Germany
Local time: 01:30
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in TurkishTurkish
PRO pts in category: 12
Grading comment
Thank you very much. Very interesting. Recent forum discussion about Farsi/Persian reminded me of this question which has intrigued me for some time: farsi (stressed on the 2nd syllable) is used as an adverb in Modern Greek - "fluently, faultlessly" - and at least two dictionaries say it's derived from a Turkish word "farsi".
Thanks to the other answerers too, for extra details.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Will Matter: i think he was referring to the -ca/ce suffix only.
14 mins
  -> as i've read in our forums recently, now there's a discussion among english-speakers as to whether the name of the language is farsi or persian in english. any connection here?

agree  Nilgün Bayram
41 mins
  -> danke, kumpel ;-)

agree  John Peterson: Your explanation is a lot better than mine! Incidentally, concerning your point about the name of the language in English, you might be interested in this link to the SOAS (Univ. of London) website: http://www.soas.ac.uk/departments/departmentinfo.cfm?nav
43 mins
  -> thank you very much, both for the kind compliment and for the link.

agree  shenay kharatekin
1 day 23 hrs

agree  senin
22 days
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7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Ottoman period


Explanation:
Farsi was once commonly used in literature at the Ottoman Empire. Poems were generally written in Farsi and it sounded very rythmic and of course fluent. Also, the poets using the language had perfect command of it, so it is possible that speaking a language "farsi" may 'mean' speaking it perfectly, fluently.

Fuzûlî, Bâkî, Ruhî, Nâilâ, Neşâti, Nedim, Şeyh Galib were some of the great poets who wrote poems in Farsi at the Ottoman period.


Ali YANDIK
Turkey
Local time: 03:30
Native speaker of: Turkish
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Changes made by editors
Nov 12, 2005 - Changes made by Özden Arıkan:
FieldOther » Art/Literary
Apr 18, 2005 - Changes made by Özden Arıkan:
Field (specific)(none) » Linguistics


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