| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Is 0.04$p/w even too low for my first job (it's an agency?) Thread poster: Natalie Cafasso Forman
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Daniel Frisano 
Italy
Local time: 17:33
Member (2008)
English to Italian
+ ...
| Should be a no-brainer | Oct 24, 2017 |
If you have better offers than $0.045 pw you take those, otherwise you take $0.045. What's the big deal?
| | | | | It's important to know. | Oct 24, 2017 |
Daniel Frisano wrote:
If you have better offers than $0.045 pw you take those, otherwise you take $0.045. What's the big deal?
Because I want to know when someone's taking advantage of me.
[Edited at 2017-10-24 13:24 GMT]
| | | | Tim Friese
United States
Local time: 10:33
Member (2013)
Arabic to English
+ ...
| I started at similar rates | Oct 24, 2017 |
I did just a few projects at those rates and quickly doubled them after I got my first positive feedback. It's fine to start there; however, I think it is imperative that you do not stay there!
| | | | | And so it goes | Oct 25, 2017 |
Tim Friese wrote:
I did just a few projects at those rates and quickly doubled them after I got my first positive feedback. It's fine to start there; however, I think it is imperative that you do not stay there!
And there you have it. Someone always works for peanuts because they just do it. And that's why these agencies are always enabled and the low-blow jobs continue. It's hopeless to try to make people understand that they should never charge or agree to such rock bottom rates. And the platforms allowing such job postings aren't
helping either.
[Edited at 2017-10-25 01:46 GMT]
[Edited at 2017-10-25 06:19 GMT]
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Olieslagers
French Polynesia
Local time: 05:33
Dutch to French
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| O.04$ p/w... | Oct 25, 2017 |
If a job is worth being done, it’s worth being paid enough to live.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 17:33
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Tim Friese wrote:
I did just a few projects at those rates and quickly doubled them after I got my first positive feedback.
And... how many jobs have you had from them after you've doubled your rate?
| | | | Daniel Frisano
Italy
Local time: 17:33
Member (2008)
English to Italian
+ ...
| Am I ruining the market for everybody? | Oct 25, 2017 |
After 19 years in this business, and very many million words translated, occasionally I still work at $0.05 per source word. It's just a single client, they are honest and I enjoy working on their material.
Does my conduct endanger the lives of my fellow translators? Should I be forced to refuse any jobs for this client? Should I be banned from my profession forever?
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Daniel Frisano wrote:
After 19 years in this business, and very many million words translated, occasionally I still work at $0.05 per source word. It's just a single client, they are honest and I enjoy working on their material.
Does my conduct endanger the lives of my fellow translators? Should I be forced to refuse any jobs for this client? Should I be banned from my profession forever?
Yes, you are contributing to ruining the market. I don't know all your circumstances with this particular client, but in principle you should charge a rate you can live on. Not just here and now, but a realistic rate that allows you to save up for holidays and sick days, and plan a pension. You should be able to pay for tax, medical insurance and social contributions, all the bills connected with having a house and family, educating your children... A new computer when you need it, software, contributions to professional associations ... In short, earning a realistic living wage from your work.
Because that is what others have to do, and clients must accept the idea. Your conduct may in fact endanger other translators' livelihoods, if not actually their lives.
That is no reason to ban you from the profession - nobody can do that anyway. You can choose to negotiate a better rate from that client or refuse work from them, or just carry on as before. Market yourself as better than the cheapest - anyone can say 'I'm cheap'!
But can you say I am good, I have experience, and I will go the extra mile to deliver a text as the client wants it? There are clients who will pay more for that kind of thing.
It is a free market. Freedom comes with responsibility, and you are not forced to stay at the bottom with the bottom feeders. Climb up with the best and offer clients real value for money at a fair rate!
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Tim Friese
United States
Local time: 10:33
Member (2013)
Arabic to English
+ ...
| Zero jobs of course! | Oct 25, 2017 |
Samuel Murray wrote: Tim Friese wrote:
I did just a few projects at those rates and quickly doubled them after I got my first positive feedback. And... how many jobs have you had from them after you've doubled your rate?
Once I had any experience and a few positive reviews I massively raised my rates and never looked back. This profession has a major barrier of entry in the form of getting your 1st and 2nd jobs, and I think that a low rate can help get new translators over that hump. I meet lots of translators (including some with degrees in translation!) who spend a year or more barely working, whereas I was doing weekly projects 3 months in and working pretty much every day 6 months in, and doing that at rates above average ($.10 in Spanish, more in Arabic/Hebrew). I'm sure I was getting more work because of my numerous positive WWA entries. I think ramping up quickly can be very beneficial to building one's business.
| | | | | Lowballing, bottom feeding, etc. | Oct 25, 2017 |
Just today I received an offer from a US agency who found me on the directory and offered me $0.05 for a (big) confirmed project starting next week. The gist of what they said was: since the project is big we had to quote a low rate to get it. We know the rate we're offering you sucks, but you'll get 2.5k per day, every working day, for 4 months, and you'll also be able to work on weekends to compensate for said rate, if you so choose...
IMO that is an unacceptable propositio... See more Just today I received an offer from a US agency who found me on the directory and offered me $0.05 for a (big) confirmed project starting next week. The gist of what they said was: since the project is big we had to quote a low rate to get it. We know the rate we're offering you sucks, but you'll get 2.5k per day, every working day, for 4 months, and you'll also be able to work on weekends to compensate for said rate, if you so choose...
IMO that is an unacceptable proposition (and the mention of work during weekends makes it even more evident), but unfortunately, this seems to happen relatively often. Some agencies decide to compete on price (not just Eastern ones, but perhaps also because of them(?)), especially for bigger projects, and then offload the results of those rate wars on translators, by "proposing" them unsustainable rates. However, while agencies (or other middlemen) can accept a project of whatever size and then split it between X translators/editors and still make a profit out of it based on their markup (and proportional to the project size), individual translators can only do so many words per day, so the "big project" rhetoric is actually empty and meaningless to the average translator, save for the duration element, which however also has rather negative implications, such as unavailability for other projects/clients and obviously, working long hours just to scrape a living...
I am not so sure that agencies proposing unsustainable rates or however rates that could be equated with the wage of an unskilled worker (in the country(/ies) where the target language is spoken) really value and respect translation and translators... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 16:33
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Christine Andersen wrote: Daniel Frisano wrote:
After 19 years in this business, and very many million words translated, occasionally I still work at $0.05 per source word. It's just a single client, they are honest and I enjoy working on their material.
Does my conduct endanger the lives of my fellow translators? Should I be forced to refuse any jobs for this client? Should I be banned from my profession forever? Yes, you are contributing to ruining the market. I don't know all your circumstances with this particular client, but in principle you should charge a rate you can live on.
I myself have just one client who I've known for years and who wants very straightforward texts translated in an "adequate" (only) manner. There's an incredibly small overhead in file handling and no correspondence: accept; download; translate; upload; invoice at month end. Texts are not only straightforward, they're pretty repetitive so with the aid of my TM and glossary, it's very much down to pressing buttons - very little need for brainwork or research. The job pays exactly half my normal rate per word, BUT it pays my normal rate per hour.
Daniel may well be in the same position, while a beginner certainly wouldn't be. So if a beginner does take the decision to work for as low a rate per word as is being discussed here then it should be with a clear objective of getting just one or two jobs under their belt then moving on to other clients and sticking to far higher rates. Until, maybe, they're very experienced and find themselves in the situation of being able to take on one or two small exceptions.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 17:33
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Tim Friese wrote: Samuel Murray wrote: Tim Friese wrote:
I did just a few projects at those rates and quickly doubled them after I got my first positive feedback. And... how many jobs have you had from them after you've doubled your rate? Once I had any experience and a few positive reviews I massively raised my rates and never looked back.
Oh, I misunderstood your first post. I thought you meant that you doubled your rate for the same client and that they still sent you work even though you've doubled your rate.
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Inga Petkelyte
Portugal
Local time: 16:33
Lithuanian to Portuguese
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| Legal, VERY urgent... for $0.04 per word | Oct 27, 2017 |
Well, well.
There is a new job potsed right now: it is a legal transltaion, very urgent and the price per word is USD 0,04. 11 pages.
The poster is from the UK so forget about "cheap indias" or other conevient stories. That's the reality of modern days.
On the other hand, earning over 100 Euros per day is not a big deal in major part of countries.
| | | | | Daily income (net) compared to legal minimum wage in a country | Oct 27, 2017 |
When you start looking at what you earn (net, not gross) for a day's work and count the number of hours you do, you hope that the qualifications and/or experience that you are using for the job of translation exceed the equivalent of the country' mimimum wage. Otherwise, there are advantages to be had in terms of social protection (health, insurance, right to replacement income if out of work, etc.) for finding a job as an employee with a basic wage. We hope to be using our qualifications/exper... See more When you start looking at what you earn (net, not gross) for a day's work and count the number of hours you do, you hope that the qualifications and/or experience that you are using for the job of translation exceed the equivalent of the country' mimimum wage. Otherwise, there are advantages to be had in terms of social protection (health, insurance, right to replacement income if out of work, etc.) for finding a job as an employee with a basic wage. We hope to be using our qualifications/experience to be doing something we enjoy, and perhaps earning (net) more than the equivalent of the legal minimum wage. Feeling forced to take a low rate, over time, can start making the basic job for a basic wage seem attractive. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Inga Petkelyte
Portugal
Local time: 16:33
Lithuanian to Portuguese
+ ...
Ah, Nikki, you made me smile remembering how some very prominent prozians here in forums felt outrageously indignant when I used the legal minimum as an economic parameter for comparison some time ago.
Anyway, if you multiply 100 Euros x 21 working days and are aware of the legal minimum figures in various countries - not even looking outside the EU - and if you are, equally, aware in how many countries people work way longer hours than it is established by law, you would, most probably, a... See more Ah, Nikki, you made me smile remembering how some very prominent prozians here in forums felt outrageously indignant when I used the legal minimum as an economic parameter for comparison some time ago.
Anyway, if you multiply 100 Euros x 21 working days and are aware of the legal minimum figures in various countries - not even looking outside the EU - and if you are, equally, aware in how many countries people work way longer hours than it is established by law, you would, most probably, agree that I can maintain what I said in previous post.
Such job posters also know that feeling free to act as they act. ▲ Collapse
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