ProZ.com Translation Forums

Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business? | Will it affect my business?

James O'Reilly — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 12:26:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business?
Poster: James O'Reilly
Post title: Will it affect my business?

As a disruptive technology under Convergence conditions yes...

Creative Commons License

[url removed]
[url removed]

The machine translation function is only one function among many, like translation memory,
collaborative structure and collaborative processes, and Creative Commons License, like
the following links (meaning such not in violation to ProZ site rule 3, moderators claiming
otherwise are false):

Creative Commons License like Wikipedia

[url removed]

Web 1.0, Gutenberg-like, and hierarchy-like processes are becoming obsolete, even if you
deploy a collaborative wiki now already. There is no need to just wait for Google Translation
Center. Web 2.0 and Wikis are now.

In conjunction with the above Creative Commons License:

[url removed]

Even the Translation Grid (the next big Internet thing, derived from Grid Computing in order
to collaboratively investigate Black Hole data in CERN) is being tested...

University Link

[url removed]
[url removed]

[url removed]

All links are public domain information.

[Edited at 2008-09-09 13:30]

Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business? | Positively for sure

Mahmoud Moftah — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 07:18:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business?
Poster: Mahmoud Moftah
Post title: Positively for sure

Google Translation Center positively affects my bussines for sure.No one can deny the massive and great Efforts exerted by Google team in assisting translators nowadays.

Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business? | Other threats too - but response of colleagues is reassuring

Venkatesh Sundaram — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 06:22:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business?
Poster: Venkatesh Sundaram
Post title: Other threats too - but response of colleagues is reassuring

[quote]Williamson wrote:

Not on the short term, but in the long run. Whereas now some call giving discounts for Trados "Professional", we will be forced to give discounts for Google Translation Centre.

Don't forget that translation is a cost-factor, which companies will try to eliminate.
If a text is translated to a satisfactory level (understandable enough) to be rewritten by a management assistant (secretary) or an engineer or both, who are already on the pay-roll, why pay a freelance translator?

What will the machine be able to churn out in 5 years from now?

What about the role of the translator:
Definition of the task: a person who rewrites and adapts texts produced by M.T. Don't forget your discounts. After all, we already have a basic version and an idea what the text is about.

[Edited at 2008-08-16 13:04] [/quote]

Going a little beyond the discussion on Google in which so many colleagues have participated, I think we all do realise that there are perhaps other treats which are perhaps more severe than Google at this time. Only this morning, I've received a mail asking me whether I would be interested in working for a 'large project' at about HALF THE RATE which I have quoted on my Proz.Com page (the potential outsourcer used Proz.Com to get to know about me in the first place). If they've contacted a large number of colleagues, and sufficient numbers of them agree to the low rates they've offered, then its perhaps only a matter of time before the profession becomes unviable for the people like me! I'm sure this is a threat several other colleagues deal with every day too - but that perhaps has already been the topic of (numerous) other discussion(s)! Nevertheless, its' reassuring to note that so many colleagues are so sure of their credentials, experience and what they are offering to their clients that they fear no machine, Google - run or otherwise!

Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business? | human will never substitute the machin.

hakim_sm — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 06:11:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business?
Poster: hakim_sm
Post title: human will never substitute the machin.

is google the first wich comes with this service ? i dont think so

Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business? | Thanks Loek.

Rob Edwards — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 20:43:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business?
Poster: Rob Edwards
Post title: Thanks Loek.

You have done a great job of expressing what i have been trying to tell people about MT for years.

[quote]Loek van Kooten wrote:

Example-based machine translation is never, ever going to take over this world. The Oxford English dictionary features 171,476 words. Let's round that off to 170,000.

Theoretically, there are therefore 170,000 possibilities for a one-word sentence.

That means there are 170,000 x 170,000 = 28,900,000,000 possibilities for a two-word sentence.

That is 170,000 x 170,000 x 170,000 = 4,913E+15 possibilities for a three-word sentence.

This relatively short sentence contains six words. That means 2,41376E+31 possibilities. That's about 24,137,600,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 possibilities. Average sentences are much longer than that.

But the situation is worse. We're not only talking language combinations like English to Spanish. No, there's also English to Russian. Russian to English. Chinese to Japanese. Japanese to Dutch. Dutch to French. French to German. French to Russian. And on, and on, and on...

Example-based machine translation will book some small successes in phrases that are used relatively often, like "Welcome to our website", but is absolutely useless for phrases that are used less often, like "Welcome to my forum thread".

And we can forget about translations that involve creativity. In my field of game translations, texts are often infested with puns.

Why couldn't the little pony talk? Because it was a little hoarse.
Waarom plant een pony zich zo snel voort? Omdat-ie graag paard.

Coming up with translations like that involves a lot of creativity. Creativity that machines will never have - it's impossible to program it.

As a translator there's no need to worry. As Proz.com there is. It can't be a coincidence that only a few days after Google's announcement, Proz.com came up with the free Try Out Our Site offer for clients.

Some clients won't care whether their texts are used for a public memory. Some clients will. And some clients will be too lazy to even check. But for you as a translator, work is work. A 1000 euro job coming in via Proz.com is worth as much as a 1000 euro job coming in via Google. I don't care, as long as I get paid :)

But no, I'm not worried that the translations I deliver will eventually put me out of business. 24,137,600,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 possibilities for 6-word sentences. Assuming that all 16 million inhabitants of Holland helped building up Google's translation memory, each inhabitant still needs to translate 1,508,600,000,000,000,000,000,000 words. If each of them does 2,000 words a day, that will take them 754,299,000,000,000,000,000 days = 2,066,570,000,000,000,000 years.

And that is just for 6-word sentences. For one of the several thousand language combinations.

We're not going to live to see that day, people.

[Edited at 2008-08-17 15:57] [/quote]

:grin:

Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business? | What sort of material could possibly get translated this way?

Izabela Szczypka — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 18:33:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business?
Poster: Izabela Szczypka
Post title: What sort of material could possibly get translated this way?

As I'd feel obliged to point out to a customer approaching me via the project site that his text would get included in a publicly available database, which customer group is likely to forego confidentiality, in fact?
To me, the most probable answer is - only those who intend to put the material into the public domain anyway, e.g. website owners, leaflet publishers etc. Having signed several (dozen) NDAs during your career, can you see any other group of potential users on the customer side?
And even website owners specify copyright on home pages... :-)

[Edited at 2008-08-17 18:52]

Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business? | There definitely is

XX789 (X) — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 13:37:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business?
Poster: XX789 (X)
Post title: There definitely is

[quote]but there is a case for factoring in repetitive chunks and terminology. [/quote]

There definitely is. And these will deflate the above numbers a bit. The number will be deflated even more because in practise, not all words will be combined with all words. The chances that a two-word term like "follicle skates" will ever be used is close to nil for example (except in this example that is) :D

But even then I think the numbers are high enough to make sure that we won't live to see the day. Especially because in many languages, segments depend on other segments. Think cases for example (der die das, anyone)? Or think politeness levels, of which Japanese has about 6 or so. Or think context. Like the Japanese "iku", which can mean both come and go, depending entirely on the context :) Japanese even has words which can mean yes and no at the same time.

But let's not go there. The problem is, that besides the enormous mathematical obstacles described above, language is more than just words. There's a whole load of invisible information between the lines that machines will never ever be able to grasp. Machines are just really bad at stuff like this.

Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business? | The human element will never go away. Quality will always cost money.

Wil Hardman (X) — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 11:16:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business?
Poster: Wil Hardman (X)
Post title: The human element will never go away. Quality will always cost money.

The only way I can see it affecting our buisiness is that perhaps more people may turn to it, as it will produce better results than machine translation. However they will still be misguided to do so and will never get a top quality translation.

It may also turn out to be a useful tool for translators or people who know what they are doing.

Many people resent paying for translation, they don't appreciate the effort and skill that producing a good translation requires. The Goolgle Center just seems like another way to get around paying. However, without the input of a human expert, good results will never be achieved, for the reasons that Loek has exposed (too many possibilities).

The concept of a global tranlsation memory, to me seems unworkable- it would spiral out of control. When translation agencies provide me with a TM, even a small one, there are always inconsistencies and errors. A huge TM where all translations are inputted would be a minefield of errors and completely unreliable.

The articles I've read talk about a review process, where translations in a global tranlsation memory are reviewed by volunteers, however the best translators are never going to participate in this free of charge. Kudoz works because it raises a translator's profile, and this is also suggested as motivation for translators to review translations in the Google translation Center! An experienced translator would have to be insane to waste their time reviewing chunks of text to raise their profile when they can do it on kudoz by just translating a term. Not to mention that they would be contributing to the Center's ultimate goal of putting translators out of work.

Kudoz works because it is restricted to translating single terms, anything beyond that the possibilities become too vast and it would no longer be a useful reference. However, not even Kudoz is 100% reliable as a reference and a knowledge of translation and the languages in question is needed to pick out which terms are applicable.

You will never eliminate the human element from translation. Proz.com works because it places the emphasis on this human element and on trying to help translators earn a living, whereas the Google Translation Center seems to be trying to bypass the human element and reducing the input needed from translators.

Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business? | Think sub-segments and terminology - not full sentences.

Simon Sobrero — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 10:35:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business?
Poster: Simon Sobrero
Post title: Think sub-segments and terminology - not full sentences.

You make some excellent points Loek, but there is a case for factoring in repetitive chunks and terminology. I believe Google's power lies in sub-segment analysis, so that, for example, your own set phrases:

"never, ever"
"take over [the] world"
"round that off"
"two-word"
"And on, and on"
"live to see [that] day"
"put [me] out of business"

and specialised terminology:

"Example-based machine translation"
"language combinations"

...could easily become part of a Machine Translation engine.

I can see Google taking over first 1%, then 5%, then more and more of the research effort, and coming up with a range of brilliant suggestions (such as your own Pony joke) eventually. There aren't as many clichés, set phrases and jokes as the total possible numbers of phrases you suggest...! In fact these 'chunks' are quite common; what CAT tools are pretty poor at, at the moment, is allowing us to extract these from the randomly long sentences that pad them out and make each author 'unique' (...pad out? - cliché!)

I am already working with some MT software and even my manual database is worth compiling in terms of return on time investment, never mind a massive automated system like Google's. I think it could become a huge phenomenon and if it increases the output of current translators, new translators might find it harder to get work (unless of course more work becomes available). Tragic if you like looking words up in dozens of dictionaries and on-line sources, rooting through dodgy old bookmarks, or being told 'access denied' or even finding nothing! But good if you prefer making things plain and readable for people with a brilliant, organic and growing knowledge base at your disposal.

Simon
[url removed]

Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business? | It's not going to happen

XX789 (X) — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 07:34:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business?
Poster: XX789 (X)
Post title: It's not going to happen

Example-based machine translation is never, ever going to take over this world. The Oxford English dictionary features 171,476 words. Let's round that off to 170,000.

Theoretically, there are therefore 170,000 possibilities for a one-word sentence.

That means there are 170,000 x 170,000 = 28,900,000,000 possibilities for a two-word sentence.

That is 170,000 x 170,000 x 170,000 = 4,913E+15 possibilities for a three-word sentence.

This relatively short sentence contains six words. That means 2,41376E+31 possibilities. That's about 24,137,600,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 possibilities. Average sentences are much longer than that.

But the situation is worse. We're not only talking language combinations like English to Spanish. No, there's also English to Russian. Russian to English. Chinese to Japanese. Japanese to Dutch. Dutch to French. French to German. French to Russian. And on, and on, and on...

Example-based machine translation will book some small successes in phrases that are used relatively often, like "Welcome to our website", but is absolutely useless for phrases that are used less often, like "Welcome to my forum thread".

And we can forget about translations that involve creativity. In my field of game translations, texts are often infested with puns.

Why couldn't the little pony talk? Because it was a little hoarse.
Waarom plant een pony zich zo snel voort? Omdat-ie graag paard.

Coming up with translations like that involves a lot of creativity. Creativity that machines will never have - it's impossible to program it.

As a translator there's no need to worry. As Proz.com there is. It can't be a coincidence that only a few days after Google's announcement, Proz.com came up with the free Try Out Our Site offer for clients.

Some clients won't care whether their texts are used for a public memory. Some clients will. And some clients will be too lazy to even check. But for you as a translator, work is work. A 1000 euro job coming in via Proz.com is worth as much as a 1000 euro job coming in via Google. I don't care, as long as I get paid :)

But no, I'm not worried that the translations I deliver will eventually put me out of business. 24,137,600,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 possibilities for 6-word sentences. Assuming that all 16 million inhabitants of Holland helped building up Google's translation memory, each inhabitant still needs to translate 1,508,600,000,000,000,000,000,000 words. If each of them does 2,000 words a day, that will take them 754,299,000,000,000,000,000 days = 2,066,570,000,000,000,000 years.

And that is just for 6-word sentences. For one of the several thousand language combinations.

We're not going to live to see that day, people.

[Edited at 2008-08-17 15:57]

Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business? | I totally agree

Nigel Greenwood (X) — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 06:51:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business?
Poster: Nigel Greenwood (X)
Post title: I totally agree

[quote]Venkatesh Sundaram wrote:

[quote]Heidi C wrote:

[quote]Williamson wrote:

What about the role of the translator:
Definition of the task: a person who rewrites and adapts texts produced by M.T. Don't forget your discounts. After all, we already have a basic version and an idea what the text is about.

[Edited at 2008-08-16 13:04] [/quote]

This will be the role of the translator who accepts this definition. (Just like translators who accept 0.002 fees plus discounts)

Translators who do not remain passive and accept the roles assigned to them, will follow this fate.

Quality translators who deliver a quality product and do not accept this role will still have work. Because the need for quality translated texts will always exist, and a good editing or adaptation job could cost the same (or more) than getting a translation right the first time!

Another example of the self-fulfilling prophesy... [/quote]

I agree that a 'translator' has to define her / his role. From what I have read, I don't think most of the colleagues who are members of Proz.Com would accept a demeaning role. As some colleagues have already pointed out, many of us are not at this time performing roles which can, in the near future, be acceptably carried out by automated means, nor are they going to be accepting the task of merely 'fixing' MTs to make them more acceptable.
In addition to specialised language skills, many colleagues bring to the table skills born of years of experience in other disciplines (law / medicine / exact sciences / biology / finance and the like), besides being HUMAN beings of integrity and discretion. Hard to see how they can in fact be replaced so easily by automation, however sophisticated, unless they allow themselves to! [/quote]

Don't forget the role we have in DTP, formatting tables, deciphering badly written original texts, etc.

Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business? | Agree - we must know what role we wish to play

Venkatesh Sundaram — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 17:54:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business?
Poster: Venkatesh Sundaram
Post title: Agree - we must know what role we wish to play

[quote]Heidi C wrote:

[quote]Williamson wrote:

What about the role of the translator:
Definition of the task: a person who rewrites and adapts texts produced by M.T. Don't forget your discounts. After all, we already have a basic version and an idea what the text is about.

[Edited at 2008-08-16 13:04] [/quote]

This will be the role of the translator who accepts this definition. (Just like translators who accept 0.002 fees plus discounts)

Translators who do not remain passive and accept the roles assigned to them, will follow this fate.

Quality translators who deliver a quality product and do not accept this role will still have work. Because the need for quality translated texts will always exist, and a good editing or adaptation job could cost the same (or more) than getting a translation right the first time!

Another example of the self-fulfilling prophesy... [/quote]

I agree that a 'translator' has to define her / his role. From what I have read, I don't think most of the colleagues who are members of Proz.Com would accept a demeaning role. As some colleagues have already pointed out, many of us are not at this time performing roles which can, in the near future, be acceptably carried out by automated means, nor are they going to be accepting the task of merely 'fixing' MTs to make them more acceptable.
In addition to specialised language skills, many colleagues bring to the table skills born of years of experience in other disciplines (law / medicine / exact sciences / biology / finance and the like), besides being HUMAN beings of integrity and discretion. Hard to see how they can in fact be replaced so easily by automation, however sophisticated, unless they allow themselves to!

Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business? | Translator should define what his or her role is...

Heidi C — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 14:43:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business?
Poster: Heidi C
Post title: Translator should define what his or her role is...

[quote]Williamson wrote:

What about the role of the translator:
Definition of the task: a person who rewrites and adapts texts produced by M.T. Don't forget your discounts. After all, we already have a basic version and an idea what the text is about.

[Edited at 2008-08-16 13:04] [/quote]

This will be the role of the translator who accepts this definition. (Just like translators who accept 0.002 fees plus discounts)

Translators who do not remain passive and accept the roles assigned to them, will follow this fate.

Quality translators who deliver a quality product and do not accept this role will still have work. Because the need for quality translated texts will always exist, and a good editing or adaptation job could cost the same (or more) than getting a translation right the first time!

Another example of the self-fulfilling prophesy...

Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business? | In the long run: Yes

Williamson — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 08:37:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business?
Poster: Williamson
Post title: In the long run: Yes

Not on the short term, but in the long run. Whereas now some call giving discounts for Trados "Professional", we will be forced to give discounts for Google Translation Centre.

Don't forget that translation is a cost-factor, which companies will try to eliminate.
If a text is translated to a satisfactory level (understandable enough) to be rewritten by a management assistant (secretary) or an engineer or both, who are already on the pay-roll, why pay a freelance translator?

What will the machine be able to churn out in 5 years from now?

What about the role of the translator:
Definition of the task: a person who rewrites and adapts texts produced by M.T. Don't forget your discounts. After all, we already have a basic version and an idea what the text is about.

[Edited at 2008-08-16 13:04]

Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business? | No

Interlangue (X) — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 05:59:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business?
Poster: Interlangue (X)
Post title: No

Machine translation will and can only affect part of the market: the jobs for which the customer does not need a relationship of trust, where he accepts responsibility for the mistakes the machine can and will make, or takes the time and effort to check the result.
I'm not saying it will never happen, just not quite so soon!

Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business? | All new to me, good or bad ......

humbird — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 02:09:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business?
Poster: humbird
Post title: All new to me, good or bad ......

To be honest, I've never heard of such until now.
So I googled for Google Translation and in order to test its feasibility I inserted few English sentences to be translated into Japanese.
Verdict ------- It is so primitive there is no reason I should be threatened by this potential competition.

However, while that appears to be a current situation, there is a huge potential there, for good or for bad.

[quote]Jeff Whittaker wrote:

A new class of translators may emerge who specialize in "fixing" or "editing" MT-generated translations.

[Edited at 2008-08-15 17:16] [/quote]

Things are chaniging so fast and we professional translators have to keep abreast with these progresses.
While I think this is neither immediate nor a serious threat to our profession, yes some of us in near future making living by telling that dumb machine what is right and what is wrong.
Me? No I do not want to be there.

Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business? | +2

Erzsébet Ráczné Czopyk — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 20:14:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business?
Poster: Erzsébet Ráczné Czopyk
Post title: +2

[quote]Patricia Lane wrote:

The poll question was whether the Google Translation Center would affect my business.

I don't think so, for the following reasons:

1. Most of the time, I work with direct clients, not through intermediaries - and in that light Google's Translation Center is just another filter.
2. Though I do use Wordfast to simplify the translation and quality control processes, I rarely benefit from fuzzy matches given the nature of my projects. How would the eventual leverage the GTC's TM benefit me?
3. Companies who would source their translation service provider through the GTC would, in all likelihood, be those who would source through Proz, i.e. looking for a quick response at a low price most of the time. This is not my market.
4. Beyond issues of confidentiality -- I think my current clients would not like to take the risk that their translations become part of a large database aimed at improving machine translations. If all corporate communications start, over time, to "sound" the same, companies would loose their unique voice and image.
5. The GTC is not going to change, IMHO, clients and prospects frequent complaint that they have a hard time finding excellent translators and writers. The GTC is, like ProZ, open to professionals and non professionals alike. This does not help end clients to make the appropriate decision in light of their needs and expectations.

But, as professionals, all of us must keep abreast of developments such as the GTC or TAUS (discussed in another thread) - to inform our clients, respond to their questions, leverage their eventual benefits where possible, affirm our added value.. and avoid the pitfalls (example: will the TAUS' mega database be better than the references available through KudoZ or IATE for example or not??).

Such developments should not be feared. Just as with other paradigm changes (i.e. industrialization and the assembly line), this may well shake up the offering on the market, with "the custom made segment" floating even more easily to the top.

My two Eurocents...

Patricia [/quote]

plus my two. could not agree more.

Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business? | Too early to say

Elin Davies — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 19:36:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business?
Poster: Elin Davies
Post title: Too early to say

I think this poll is slightly premature seeing that, as far as I know, this hasn't been launched yet and only a very few have seen the platform before it was whisked away again as it's not actually gone public yet. We'll have to wait and see what it is once it turns up before deciding on how it will influence us I think.

Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business? | Great points

Laureana Pavon — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 18:34:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business?
Poster: Laureana Pavon
Post title: Great points

I believe Patricia has a good point: How would this affect confidentiality?
What would an end client think about the idea of their translations being used publicly, even if it were in some way "disguised" or made anonymous?

But I also agree that a certain part of the market will be more than happy to get a poor translation in exchange for much lower rates.

Enjoy your weekend!

Laureana

Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business? | Will the Google Translation affect your business?

KRAT (X) — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 18:32:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business?
Poster: KRAT (X)
Post title: Will the Google Translation affect your business?

As a new Translation Tool, I'll try it, and since Google is reliable I consider seriously of adopting it..In these terms it will affect my business!

Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business? | No worries, but awareness

Patricia Lane — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 18:00:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business?
Poster: Patricia Lane
Post title: No worries, but awareness

The poll question was whether the Google Translation Center would affect my business.

I don't think so, for the following reasons:

1. Most of the time, I work with direct clients, not through intermediaries - and in that light Google's Translation Center is just another filter.
2. Though I do use Wordfast to simplify the translation and quality control processes, I rarely benefit from fuzzy matches given the nature of my projects. How would the eventual leverage the GTC's TM benefit me?
3. Companies who would source their translation service provider through the GTC would, in all likelihood, be those who would source through Proz, i.e. looking for a quick response at a low price most of the time. This is not my market.
4. Beyond issues of confidentiality -- I think my current clients would not like to take the risk that their translations become part of a large database aimed at improving machine translations. If all corporate communications start, over time, to "sound" the same, companies would loose their unique voice and image.
5. The GTC is not going to change, IMHO, clients and prospects frequent complaint that they have a hard time finding excellent translators and writers. The GTC is, like ProZ, open to professionals and non professionals alike. This does not help end clients to make the appropriate decision in light of their needs and expectations.

But, as professionals, all of us must keep abreast of developments such as the GTC or TAUS (discussed in another thread) - to inform our clients, respond to their questions, leverage their eventual benefits where possible, affirm our added value.. and avoid the pitfalls (example: will the TAUS' mega database be better than the references available through KudoZ or IATE for example or not??).

Such developments should not be feared. Just as with other paradigm changes (i.e. industrialization and the assembly line), this may well shake up the offering on the market, with "the custom made segment" floating even more easily to the top.

My two Eurocents...

Patricia

Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business? | Google Translation Center

Jeff Whittaker — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:11:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business?
Poster: Jeff Whittaker
Post title: Google Translation Center

Computer translation (assisted by crowd-sourcing, translation memory and existing translations on the net) will never be perfect because the writing created by human beings is imperfect.

That having been said, there is and will be a market for machine-produced translations simply because they are faster and cheaper. Therefore, the real question is not whether the computer can/will translate better than a human, but whether the kind of translation that will be computer generated in the future will be acceptable (or will be perceived as being acceptable) or "good enough" for the client's purposes. This will undoubtedly be true in many cases.

A new class of translators may emerge who specialize in "fixing" or "editing" MT-generated translations. MT will be increasingly used to allow people to communicate with one another quickly and inexpensively via a variety of electronic products (on-line/console video games, text messaging, forums).

MT is not adequate for many types of translation work. In a specialist field, such as legal translation, for example, you not only have to deal with the asymmetry of two different language systems, but there is also a second layer of asymmetry between two different cultural systems (ex. common vs civil law). In this sense, translation becomes an exercise in problem solving. How do you translate a concept or idea that does not exist in the target language?

However, the increased use and availability of MT (and the resulting increased access to foreign language documents and contacts between speakers of two different languages) will bring more information to the attention of potential clients who may then want or need a human-generated translation.

[Edited at 2008-08-15 17:16]

Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business? | Thanks for the update - it may affect us (adversely) in course of time

Venkatesh Sundaram — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 16:55:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business?
Poster: Venkatesh Sundaram
Post title: Thanks for the update - it may affect us (adversely) in course of time

[quote]Steven Capsuto wrote:

[quote]Venkatesh Sundaram wrote:

I'm afraid I'm in the dark about this and have answered with a "don't know". I note that as on 15.34 hours GMT on the 15th of August 2008, a large majority (65.1%, with 195 votes in) have given such an answer. Perhaps some colleagues could tell us what this (proposed?) Google Translation Center is all about? [/quote]

There's a Cnet news article about it here: [url removed]

Basically, Google is acting as an intermediary between translators and clients. But since the translations are submitted through this service, it's probably also building up the parallel corpora underlying Google's online machine translation, thus allowing better context matching.

As the Cnet article put it: "Google prefers to rely on computer algorithms rather than humans, so at first glance the Google Translation Center looks somewhat anomalous, even though Google is only playing a middleman role. But it's possible that the human translators might be gradually improving Google's machine translation technology as they work, in effect helping to put themselves out of a job."

I think improvements to machine translation in general are more likely to affect generalist translators than ones who work in niche markets or less widespread languages. In fields where there's a high risk of law suits -- medical and pharmaceutical translation for instance -- it would be foolish for clients to rely on machine translation, especially for narrative text. In the last patient chart I translated there were phrases that could mean diametrically opposed things depending on context... and even for a human translator it was tricky to figure it out.

[Edited at 2008-08-15 15:53] [/quote]

[quote] Keshab wrote "Only human translator can "feel" the word with his sense which is far ahead from the capacity of machine.

Science can reach to its highest point but till now (and also in future) it can't replace human brain (sentiments). It is not possible for google to affect anyway the human translator's business.
[/quote]

Thanks for the update Steven. Having read the article you linked to, I would also like to reply to my countryman, Keshab.

Without relying on the repertoire of science fiction, I would say that it is quite conceivable for the Google methods to come very very close to the human "feel" of the word or phrase. What it would be doing is essentially to rely on HUMAN translation tp build up an enormous data base of texts and their fairly authentic translations in several languages. Combined with Google's search engine technology, it could in theory be possible for these methods to choose the phrase with the best"feel" in a given situation from amongst a number of possibilities. Hence it is (at least theoretically) possible that it could put a large number of human translators out of business (eventually)!

But then again, it is human translators who would be working to build up the data bases in the first place, so they would have sufficient work to do at least in the short run. Furthermore, human endeavour (and with it, human sentiments, feelings and the like) will keep creating new frontiers of knowledge, and someone ( a set of human translators ?) would have to keep updating the data bases!

On another note, in the early days of the industrial age, human workers destroyed (newly developed) machines using wooden shoes ("sabots" -> sabotage) and the like. But while the work of several humans was performed by a single machine ( a process of automation which continues till this day), the humans moved on to better (?!) things..... I guess the future of "machine" translation would perhaps be quite similar.

[Edited at 2008-08-15 16:58]

Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business? | Not in the least

Henry Hinds — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 16:41:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business?
Poster: Henry Hinds
Post title: Not in the least

A local market, specialized work and a lot of paper documents will keep me in business for as long as I wish.

And I agree with Keshab, language is human and machines are machines.

Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business? | Machine language can't affect human language

keshab — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 16:17:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business?
Poster: keshab
Post title: Machine language can't affect human language

The reason is simple. Human mind is not only logical like machine, it has a plenty of sentiments also which reflects in the human language. Machine can catch one mood only, where an human being is able to catch many moods and choice the appropriate word from the treasure of his language. We can say "He cries". But why he cries? Can google explain it with appropriate word? In English it is rather easy to say "he cries in pain"," he cries in joy" but many languages in the world have different words for different expressions. Only human translator can "feel" the word with his sense which is far ahead from the capacity of machine.

Science can reach to its highest point but till now (and also in future) it can't replace human brain (sentiments). It is not possible for google to affect anyway the human translator's business.

[Edited at 2008-08-15 16:18]

Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business? | Google Translation Center

Steven Capsuto — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 15:46:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business?
Poster: Steven Capsuto
Post title: Google Translation Center

[quote]Venkatesh Sundaram wrote:

I'm afraid I'm in the dark about this and have answered with a "don't know". I note that as on 15.34 hours GMT on the 15th of August 2008, a large majority (65.1%, with 195 votes in) have given such an answer. Perhaps some colleagues could tell us what this (proposed?) Google Translation Center is all about? [/quote]

There's a Cnet news article about it here: [url removed]

Basically, Google is acting as an intermediary between translators and clients. But since the translations are submitted through this service, it's probably also building up the parallel corpora underlying Google's online machine translation, thus allowing better context matching.

As the Cnet article put it: "Google prefers to rely on computer algorithms rather than humans, so at first glance the Google Translation Center looks somewhat anomalous, even though Google is only playing a middleman role. But it's possible that the human translators might be gradually improving Google's machine translation technology as they work, in effect helping to put themselves out of a job."

I think improvements to machine translation in general are more likely to affect generalist translators than ones who work in niche markets or less widespread languages. In fields where there's a high risk of law suits -- medical and pharmaceutical translation for instance -- it would be foolish for clients to rely on machine translation, especially for narrative text. In the last patient chart I translated there were phrases that could mean diametrically opposed things depending on context... and even for a human translator it was tricky to figure it out.

[Edited at 2008-08-15 15:53]

Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business? | Yes please!

Valeria Aliperta — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 15:45:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business?
Poster: Valeria Aliperta
Post title: Yes please!

I am definitely in the dark with you!
Please someone explain it :s

Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business? | Would someone educate me ? (and others too, perhaps!)

Venkatesh Sundaram — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 15:39:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business?
Poster: Venkatesh Sundaram
Post title: Would someone educate me ? (and others too, perhaps!)

I'm afraid I'm in the dark about this and have answered with a "don't know". I note that as on 15.34 hours GMT on the 15th of August 2008, a large majority (65.1%, with 195 votes in) have given such an answer. Perhaps some colleagues could tell us what this (proposed?) Google Translation Center is all about?

Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business?

ProZ.com Staff — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 14:25:44 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Will the Google Translation Center affect your business?
Poster: ProZ.com Staff

This forum topic is for the discussion of the poll question "Will the Google Translation Center affect your business?".

This poll was originally submitted by TRYTUN Translation Services

View the poll here

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