ProZ.com Translation Forums

Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 | This may depend on how you are presenting yourself to potential clients too

Jared Tabor — Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:37:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com job systems
Topic: Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010
Poster: Jared Tabor
Post title: This may depend on how you are presenting yourself to potential clients too

Membership, which provides you with raised visibility (on the site and on the web) is more, or less, effective according to how you accompany that visibility. Solid activity in the term help system helps. And if for example my profile says little or nothing about me professionally, I probably stand less chance of receiving client contact than others who are clearly displaying what they do, how well they do it, their qualifications, and, basically, have prepared a stronger business card than mine (regardless of rates).

Regards,

Jared

Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 | I'd have to dispute Henry's claim

Desdemone (X) — Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:32:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com job systems
Topic: Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010
Poster: Desdemone (X)
Post title: I'd have to dispute Henry's claim

As a test, I twice paid for membership in different years to see if I would be offered any "jobs" - nothing. Fortunately I suffer from over-work, not the reverse.

I'm sure many people do get jobs through this site, as many will no doubt now point out, and I am equally sure there are many who don't, probably because of rates.

As I said in a post yesterday on a different forum, proz represents the very low end, if not the bottom, of the "market", and translators who charge high-end rates most likely do not find work here.

[Edited at 2010-02-25 13:34 GMT]

Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 | Sorry, VeronicaMar

Henry Dotterer — Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:31:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com job systems
Topic: Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010
Poster: Henry Dotterer
Post title: Sorry, VeronicaMar

[quote]VeronicaMar wrote:

I'm not a paying member, I decided that I would become one after getting a steady work flow from ProZ, say at least 1 project each month.

That never actually happened... [/quote]
And it probably won't. The site is structured in such a way that new client flow goes to paying members. If you are not prepared to invest in your business, even in an amount equal to what most translators earn in a single project, you will not be able to grow your business quickly here.

Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 | Mmmmmmmmmmm....

Veronica Martinez — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 19:06:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com job systems
Topic: Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010
Poster: Veronica Martinez
Post title: Mmmmmmmmmmm....

I'm not a paying member, I decided that I would become one after getting a steady work flow from ProZ, say at least 1 project each month.

That never actually happened and I get the bulk of my work from other sources, so I never became a member. I think the services that ProZ offers me are fine for a free membership, since ProZ also benefits from me being here.

ProZ makes a profit from advertising too, and I felt the BrowniZ were a sot of reward for participating in the site's activities and actually increasing the site's online presence and traffic (which brings more ads and profits to the site).

Now, ProZ is just like any other site, why would I want to become a member here and not in other similar sites?

[Edited at 2010-02-24 20:59 GMT]

Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 | My reasons for paying

Sheila Wilson — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:34:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com job systems
Topic: Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010
Poster: Sheila Wilson
Post title: My reasons for paying

[quote]Anton Konashenok wrote:
rewarding them with membership benefits, though not an imperative, is good stewardship.[/quote]
I agree that the active involvement of translation professionals is an absolute imperative for ProZ, who need to make all possible effort to attract and retain them. However, BrowniZ will continue to offer a reduction in membership fees (albeit small), so I think they are continuing to do that.

[quote]Could I please have a testimonial from a seasoned professional working in the upper price segment of the translation market?[/quote]
I'm not sure I really qualify on either count, but I'm certainly not a beginner charging stupidly low rates.

I agree entirely that allowing posters to state the rate is not a good idea as it does make ProZ look a bit like a slave-trading organisation that welcomes buyers who are 100% interested in price and not one bit concerned with quality. But even posters who don't state their price have a price in mind, don't they? I recently quoted 0.10€ per word and received an emailed reply welcoming me as a collaborator and asking me to logon to their site - where I was asked to agree to their rate of 6€ per 400-word article! I make that 0.015€!

But I'm not leaving ProZ because of this type of client (although the trend does worry me). I get a lot of work through ProZ and virtually none of it from posted jobs. I don't go after the clients with my tongue hanging out - they come looking for me! They are agencies and outsourcers looking for particular specialisations, fellow translators looking to please regular end-clients with demands that they cannot fulfil, even people who register on ProZ just so they can contact me directly. This last one may not apply to every translator but one of my specialisations is French to English CVs so there are an awful lot of potential clients for a job that brings in on average 50€.

If the only way to benefit financially from ProZ was through job posts, I would think twice about being a paid member, though there would still be reason to stay here for the networking, the exchange of information in forum posts, the Blue Board information, the help of KudoZ (giving as well as profiting from), etc. But as long as clients who seriously need a serious translator can find me and contact me, I'll keep paying for my membership.

Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 | Why not abolish all points altogether, and maybe even the quote system, too?

Anton Konashenok — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:14:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com job systems
Topic: Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010
Poster: Anton Konashenok
Post title: Why not abolish all points altogether, and maybe even the quote system, too?

As far as I understand, the very *raison d'être* of browniz and kudoz points is to give some kind of recognition to people actively giving their time and knowledge to the site. These people are boosting the image of ProZ and, ultimately, its profits, and rewarding them with membership benefits, though not an imperative, is good stewardship. Withholding the last one of these benefits looks like greed.
On a related note, site owners keep claiming that paid membership is oh-so-wonderful because of much better exposure to clients, etc. Сall me jaded, but I fail to see significant benefits to anyone but young linguists with low rates. I work in 8 language pairs and have been with ProZ for 3 years. Out of 39 quotes I submitted through the site, I got exactly ONE job and about 10-15 responses saying my rates were too high. I am afraid the entire system of job bidding as it stands now is doing a disservice to the translators by allowing the clients to drive the prices (and thus the quality) down. When I see 500-word jobs being put up for bidding, or the dreaded phrase "please give us your best rates", I know it's another cheapskate looking to get a job done for peanuts.
I am not saying ProZ was useless - on the contrary, I got quite a few excellent contacts with clients and colleagues, but none of them was due to the job and directory services. Allegedly, these do a lot more to paid members, but sorry, I am not convinced. Please, please prove me wrong! Could I please have a testimonial from a seasoned professional working in the upper price segment of the translation market?

Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 | Paying members still have an advantage over non-paying users

Laureana Pavon — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:18:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com job systems
Topic: Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010
Poster: Laureana Pavon
Post title: Paying members still have an advantage over non-paying users

[quote]Cristina Heraud-van Tol wrote:
- Paying members will not have any priority in this regard over non-paying ones.

I remember that one of the advantages of a paying member was that our quotes would be placed on top of those of non-paying members. Now our quotes will be just all mixed with the rest.
[/quote]

Cristina, I believe you are mistaken. Let me quote part of the text that appears on the membership page ( [url removed] )

- Members appear before all non-members in the directory
- Outsourcers that post jobs see quotes from members first

There's a very clear comparison of features on that page that may be helpful.

Best regards,

Laureana

Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 | Paying members still have priority

Katalin McClure — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:51:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com job systems
Topic: Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010
Poster: Katalin McClure
Post title: Paying members still have priority

[quote]Cristina Heraud-van Tol wrote:

- Paying members will not have any priority in this regard over non-paying ones

I remember that one of the advantages of a paying member was that our quotes would be placed on top of those of non-paying members. Now our quotes will be just all mixed with the rest. [/quote]

Cristina, where did you read this?
I don't think it is true.
The differentiation between paying members (that is people paying the membership fee) and non-paying users did not change. As far as I know, members' quotes will still be listed before users' quotes.

Katalin

Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 | That won't encourage me at all

Carla Monticelli — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:33:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com job systems
Topic: Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010
Poster: Carla Monticelli
Post title: That won't encourage me at all

I'm using proz.com since 2005 and I never got a job by sending a quote via the website. Anyway I continued trying because I had those browniz to use.
Now I will just quit it.

Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 | Forget about that

Viktoria Gimbe — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 00:11:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com job systems
Topic: Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010
Poster: Viktoria Gimbe
Post title: Forget about that

[quote]David Russi wrote:
[quote]Olaf Knechten wrote:
Why not just let them post a job and let the bidder quote like in any other business? Outsourcers might get influenced by the rates the others offer on here and try thier luck or just think these are normal translation rates. Once you remove the ability to publicly set a fixed price, rates will go up, I'm sure, since even when asked for their "best rate", translators will never bid as low as the prices offered in the jobs section.
As long as outsourcers are allowed to set prices and publish them here I won't become a paying member. [/quote]
I like it a lot and wish it could be implemented. Unfortunately, like many other good suggestions that could actually SUPPORT translators worldwide and allow rates to go higher, it is not likely to see the day of light. [/quote]
Many of us have asked for exactly this solution for years now, to no avail. I don't expect this happening any time soon.

Think about it. I'll be damned if this solution, if implemented, wouldn't have the effect of a sharp decline in the amount of jobs posted each day. If there were less job posts, there would also be less quotes on them, which means less BrowniZ/loonies spent. Not to mention less traffic as well.

I can understand that a for-profit company wants to make money on everything they do. What I don't understand is that the loonie they make on each quote is nothing compared to the overall amounts translators lose out on because of this endless sea of badly paid excuses for a job. Surely, ProZ has enough experience and user/member input by now to do things in a way that would allow them to earn revenue and help their users make money, too...

Many argue that their interest in ProZ is not tied to money, that they don't make money from the site and they don't even want to. Fair enough. However, please consider that this is the most popular portal with the most members, most job posts, most everything. As such, it has a louder voice in the industry. That voice has been shouting that translators should be paid less, if at all. That ProZ doesn't help me make money, I don't mind. That they, even indirectly, help me lose money, by, again indirectly, helping to drive rates down by allowing penny-per-word offers on the job board, that I do mind a tad bit. We all should.

Sometimes, I think that if ProZ put translators' interests a bit higher up their list of priorities, not only would they help the industry, they would also get more paying members. In my mind, that's a missed opportunity...

Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 | Disappointed

Christine Walsh — Thu, 28 Jan 2010 14:08:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com job systems
Topic: Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010
Poster: Christine Walsh
Post title: Disappointed

Dear Jared and ProZ team,

I have been a non-paying member for three or four years, but only became aware of what ProZ had to offer towards the end of 2008. Since then I have learnt a lot, answered many questions, asked only a few, and most importantly, made friends and really experienced a kind of online community spirit I had never encountered before. As I am working on a career swing, I have every intention of becoming a paying member quite soon, but must say that this stick-and-carrot approach considerably reduces my pleasure in doing so.

I have rarely found the job postings available to me attractive enough to quote on, even with Brownziz. I have received a few offers of work, probably because of my visibility on Kudoz in my language pair. I really feel I've contributed a lot to ProZ, certainly more than I've got out of it so far, even though my investment has been time and not money, and this is probably true of most people in my situation.

In my opinion, ProZ will probably collect a bit more cash after this decision, but may lose something that is intangible but just as valuable, or perhaps more so. And many potential paying members, like myself, may be sorely tempted to change their mind simply out of disillusionment.

Best regards,

Christine Walsh

Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 | "How can I learn to walk, if you steal my shoes?"

Miriam Perez Mariano — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 19:38:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com job systems
Topic: Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010
Poster: Miriam Perez Mariano
Post title: "How can I learn to walk, if you steal my shoes?"

[quote]Jared wrote:

Dear members,

Effective January 1st, 2010, it will no longer be possible for non-members to use 100 browniz points to "purchase" the right to quote on a job. (It will still be possible for non-members to pay $1, from their ProZ.com wallets, for the right to quote.)

Quoting with browniz points is a remnant from the time in ProZ.com's history when most site users were not members, and few had money in their ProZ.com wallets. Today, nearly all quotes (90%) come from paying members (or from non-members who have cash in their wallets.)

This move is intended primarily to reward and encourage membership.

Regards,

Jared [/quote]

Dear members of ProZ,

I am really sorry that you took this decission. I registered as a member last July and it was my pleasure to help others with my language knowledge, since translating is one of my passions. That's why I got 200 KudoZ points, which I thank you for. The staff can also see that several of those were due to my task in the GBK glossary.

Since unfortunately many customers want only members -although they do not know whether the final output will therefore be more accurate- I was patiently waiting until the members-only hours they chose had past and quoted afterwards with my Browniz.

To my satisfaction and as a consequence of my work and patience, I got a small amount of translations. It is something tough, after being a translator for 14 years and understanding several languages, but I swallowed my pride and I took them, because at least they paid something, although in Germany it is not much.

And now that I was thinking of becoming a member after one more job or so, I unfortunately saw that Browniz were not a help anymore for a translator who is new in this platform.

That is why -here and now- I appeal to customers to give an opportunity to "young" ProZ members and to check that there is also knowledge and quality among us.

Thank you very much in advance for your chance in learning how to walk -if not run or fly-.

:-)

All the best,
Miriam

Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 | .

Anneli — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 09:42:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com job systems
Topic: Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010
Poster: Anneli
Post title: .

I have hard time seeing in which way this move would encourage a paying membership because I think that those who deemed it necessary, have already purchased it. I, for one, have never intended to get it : firstly, as stated by several posters already, answering questions, composing and uploading glossaries requires times and effort and therefore I considered that Brownies I earned were not "monnaie de singe" because Proz got something back in exchange from me. Secondly, the rates I have been able to obtain through bidding have always been ridiculously low, therefore the offers platform here did not profit me financially in any way. Nevertheless, I have been quoting systematically - I might be overly naive but I thought that if agencies who post a job offer and want people to work for "peanuts", receive quotes with rates that would be acceptable also for translators, perhaps it could change something in the long run.

[Edited at 2010-01-27 09:46 GMT]

Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 | One less feature for everybody

Cristina Heraud-van Tol — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 04:08:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com job systems
Topic: Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010
Poster: Cristina Heraud-van Tol
Post title: One less feature for everybody

- Non-paying members will not be able to quote for jobs anymore
- Paying members will not have any priority in this regard over non-paying ones

I remember that one of the advantages of a paying member was that our quotes would be placed on top of those of non-paying members. Now our quotes will be just all mixed with the rest.

Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 | I agree

Nidhalz — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 00:07:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com job systems
Topic: Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010
Poster: Nidhalz
Post title: I agree

I agree 100% with all your comments.

[quote]Cristina Heraud-van Tol wrote:

[quote]Jocelyne S wrote:

I've met several people who became paying members of the site after having secured one or more jobs through the site.

If this is a general trend, might Proz.com not be shooting itself in the foot by taking the possibility to quote away from non-paying members?

When people are starting up their business, they may not necessarily want to invest in membership right away. If in time they see a benefit from the site, they may join later, but I'm not sure that limiting access is the best way to go about it in that case.

I really liked the idea that people could "work" for the good of the site and earn Browniz that could be used for BB access and quoting on jobs. It seemed like a fair deal to me.

I imagine that the decision was thought out by site staff and taken for specific reasons, but I feel that it's a bit unfortunate. There are a lot of great non-paying members on this site and it would be pity (and a loss to the whole community) to lose them.

Best,
Jocelyne [/quote]

After visiting plenty of other translation sites, I loved ProZ because it was the only one where you could apply to jobs without paying a membership. So I used my first 300 Browniz to apply to jobs, and then gathered more BrowniZ points by answering polls, answering the CAT tool surveys, entering terms in the glossaries, etc. In one year, I have applied to a total of 46 jobs thanks to the Browniz I got by doing all these activities. I got some of the jobs and obtained really good customers which I still keep. Once I saw all this was working good (at least for me) and all the extra benefits I could get, I became a paying member voluntarily. Now it's like a "take it or leave it" approach.

If I hadn't had this chance at all and realized that ProZ was just like any other translation paying site, I would have simply passed to the next one. Not only good old translators who aren't members will lose here (and probably leave the site), but also new translators who would have loved to try the site and who felt attracted to the non-paying approach, not found elsewhere on the Net. The translators who are here for years know what is ProZ like, but the newcomers won't even have a chance.

Getting BrowniZ was not free either, you had to put a constant effort and visit the site every day, even several times a day to get a bunch and be ready to apply for the next job. This effort also costs time, and therefore money. ProZ itself will lose as well because fewer translators will be attracted and I don't know if this decision will really increase the number of memberships of the site. Normally, people don't like to be obliged to do things.

What a pity!
[/quote]

Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 | I won't bother now.

Nidhalz — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 23:21:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com job systems
Topic: Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010
Poster: Nidhalz
Post title: I won't bother now.

I was actually thinking of joining, I don't think I'll bother now.

Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 | A fully discouraging move

Cristian Garcia — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 23:08:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com job systems
Topic: Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010
Poster: Cristian Garcia
Post title: A fully discouraging move

In 8 years of being a non-paying member, I only got ONE JOB through Proz.com, which earned me JUST $25 US. Now, I will not even participate in answering Kudoz questions, what´s the use.
Good luck, to all.

Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 | Re some of your points

SirReaL — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 23:13:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com job systems
Topic: Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010
Poster: SirReaL
Post title: Re some of your points

[quote]Cristina Heraud-van Tol wrote:
If I hadn't had this chance at all and realized that ProZ was just like any other translation paying site, I would have simply passed to the next one.
[/quote]

Why exactly would you pass to the next site if none offered these freebies anyway? Surely there are many things worth using here, and even paying for - your current membership is proof enough.

[quote]Cristina Heraud-van Tol wrote:
Getting BrowniZ was not free either, you had to put a constant effort and visit the site every day, even several times a day to get a bunch and be ready to apply for the next job. This effort also costs time, and therefore money.
[/quote]

In terms of getting your time's worth, you might have been better off outlaying the membership fee instead of spending it on earning browniz (which have never been worth much anyway).

[quote]Cristina Heraud-van Tol wrote:
Normally, people don't like to be obliged to do things.
[/quote]

That's aking to saying "I resent the fact that I am obliged to pay for my groceries, electricity, telephone connection and Internet access."

Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 | I think exactly like you!

Cristina Heraud-van Tol — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 20:47:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com job systems
Topic: Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010
Poster: Cristina Heraud-van Tol
Post title: I think exactly like you!

[quote]Jocelyne S wrote:

I've met several people who became paying members of the site after having secured one or more jobs through the site.

If this is a general trend, might Proz.com not be shooting itself in the foot by taking the possibility to quote away from non-paying members?

When people are starting up their business, they may not necessarily want to invest in membership right away. If in time they see a benefit from the site, they may join later, but I'm not sure that limiting access is the best way to go about it in that case.

I really liked the idea that people could "work" for the good of the site and earn Browniz that could be used for BB access and quoting on jobs. It seemed like a fair deal to me.

I imagine that the decision was thought out by site staff and taken for specific reasons, but I feel that it's a bit unfortunate. There are a lot of great non-paying members on this site and it would be pity (and a loss to the whole community) to lose them.

Best,
Jocelyne [/quote]

After visiting plenty of other translation sites, I loved ProZ because it was the only one where you could apply to jobs without paying a membership. So I used my first 300 Browniz to apply to jobs, and then gathered more BrowniZ points by answering polls, answering the CAT tool surveys, entering terms in the glossaries, etc. In one year, I have applied to a total of 46 jobs thanks to the Browniz I got by doing all these activities. I got some of the jobs and obtained really good customers which I still keep. Once I saw all this was working good (at least for me) and all the extra benefits I could get, I became a paying member voluntarily. Now it's like a "take it or leave it" approach.

If I hadn't had this chance at all and realized that ProZ was just like any other translation paying site, I would have simply passed to the next one. Not only good old translators who aren't members will lose here (and probably leave the site), but also new translators who would have loved to try the site and who felt attracted to the non-paying approach, not found elsewhere on the Net. The translators who are here for years know what is ProZ like, but the newcomers won't even have a chance.

Getting BrowniZ was not free either, you had to put a constant effort and visit the site every day, even several times a day to get a bunch and be ready to apply for the next job. This effort also costs time, and therefore money. ProZ itself will lose as well because fewer translators will be attracted and I don't know if this decision will really increase the number of memberships of the site. Normally, people don't like to be obliged to do things.

What a pity!

Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 | Directory Placement

Jeff Whittaker — Thu, 21 Jan 2010 13:34:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com job systems
Topic: Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010
Poster: Jeff Whittaker
Post title: Directory Placement

Hi Margaret,

Something to consider: With the number of KudoZ points you have, as a member you would quickly go from page 50-60 in the directory to page 1 or 2. You would see a drastic increase in the number of companies contacting you directly (at your rates) and there would no longer be any need to quote on posted jobs. Most jobs and most of the good jobs are never posted anyway.

[quote]margaret caulfield wrote:

[/quote]

[Edited at 2010-01-21 13:42 GMT]

Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 | 2 Bruno

SirReaL — Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:48:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com job systems
Topic: Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010
Poster: SirReaL
Post title: 2 Bruno

[quote]Bruno Veilleux wrote:
I seldom use ProZ for anything other than quoting on jobs. [/quote]

You might want to re-read Katalin's post above for advice on succeeding on ProZ. It's all right there, pure and simple. Many members, including myself, are a testament.

Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 | I totally agree with you, Jocelyne

Ali Alsaqqa — Wed, 20 Jan 2010 20:26:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com job systems
Topic: Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010
Poster: Ali Alsaqqa
Post title: I totally agree with you, Jocelyne

[quote]Jocelyne S wrote:

I've met several people who became paying members of the site after having secured one or more jobs through the site.

If this is a general trend, might Proz.com not be shooting itself in the foot by taking the possibility to quote away from non-paying members?

When people are starting up their business, they may not necessarily want to invest in membership right away. If in time they see a benefit from the site, they may join later, but I'm not sure that limiting access is the best way to go about it in that case.

I really liked the idea that people could "work" for the good of the site and earn Browniz that could be used for BB access and quoting on jobs. It seemed like a fair deal to me.

I imagine that the decision was thought out by site staff and taken for specific reasons, but I feel that it's a bit unfortunate. There are a lot of great non-paying members on this site and it would be pity (and a loss to the whole community) to lose them.

Best,
Jocelyne [/quote]

Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 | Oh well

Bruno Veilleux — Wed, 20 Jan 2010 16:36:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com job systems
Topic: Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010
Poster: Bruno Veilleux
Post title: Oh well

I was considering buying a subscription once I could gather enough money (which in my condition is likely to take quite some time), just to put some more chances on my side. But this does not make sense anymore; since I can't quote on most jobs anymore, I'm better off just going on a hunt for recruiting agencies over the Web and waiting until they contact me.

I seldom use ProZ for anything other than quoting on jobs. Glossaries and kudoz questions rarely are useful to me and I have other places I go when I want to ask a question. Even though quoting was "free", I never quoted on jobs that seemed a waste of time and my browniz were earned mainly by writing articles for ProZ, so I did consider it an interesting exchange for both parties.

Paying 1$ per quote (or subscribing, for that matter) is as ridiculous as sending a cheque with a copy of your CV when you apply for a job "in real life". Since when do we have to earn the right to offer our services? They are the ones looking for us in the first place!
When you think about it, most ads/directory sites ask for payment to put an ad up, not to reply to them. I cannot fathom why this would work the other way around for us!

The only use of ProZ for me from now on (except for the occasional "contact by e-mail" posting) will be to find more agencies and companies to send my CV to - from outside ProZ. I suppose that my profile and the BlueBoard can still be useful as well, but they won't be too relevant to people/companies outside of ProZ.

I will give credit where credit is due, however. First for keeping this thread up and allowing free speech; secondly, ProZ does have the right to do whatever they please with their policies, so basically I am just saying that you are losing me through this, for what that's worth.

Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 | A few clarifications

Katalin McClure — Wed, 20 Jan 2010 15:55:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com job systems
Topic: Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010
Poster: Katalin McClure
Post title: A few clarifications

[quote]margaret caulfield wrote:

I also have a great deal of browniz. What can I use them for now?
[/quote]
You can get a discount on membership, and once you are a member, you can buy directory ads with them.

[quote]On the other hand, have you stopped to weigh up the probabilities of being given a project through Proz, considering the worldwide competition? Let's say I apply for 20 projects in one month. What are my probabilities of getting one? 1 in 50? 1 in 40? The cost for my 20 applications would be $20.00, so I'd say I shall definitely be losing out on this one. [/quote]
I have no idea what the probabilities are. There are too many parameters that are unknown to me. However, I must say, as a simple user, you are at a great disadvantage anyway. When you quote for a project, your quote will appear only after all paying members' quotes. Given the popularity of your language pair, the chances of outsourcers looking at your quote in detail is slim. Same story for the Directory. Your name will appear only after paying members. Again, given the number of translators in your language pair, the outsourcer has a long way to go before even seeing you on the list.

[quote] a considerable amount of browniz (earned by offering valid answers to others FREE OF CHARGE)[/quote]

You are mistaken here. When you provide answers "FREE OF CHARGE" to KudoZ questions, you "earn" KudoZ points, not BrowniZ. Your KudoZ answers never had anything to do with your ability to quote on projects.

You asked what you are "going to be getting back from Proz in return".
In return of helping your colleagues? Do you expect anything from ProZ in return? Why? If you can expect anything from anybody, that would probably be a "thank you" from the asker. It is either given directly, or it maybe only in the form of the points (KudoZ, not BrowniZ) you are getting. The KudoZ points help you get ahead in the directory - but again, as a non-paying user, that may not help much.

[quote]Until now, we have been able to ask translation questions [/quote]

Perhaps you are mistaken? You are still able to do that. That function is not related to BrowniZ.

[quote]Well, it seems to me that we are now simply going to be working free of charge and nothing else.[/quote]

"Working free of charge"? I am at loss here.
Do you refer to helping others with their questions? Nobody has ever paid you for that.
Nothing has changed there - you are getting KudoZ points, just as before. You have the same choice as before - either help or not, on a volunteer basis (yes, "free of charge").

[quote]This is a tremendous disappointment and, like many other non-paying members, it most definitely does not offer me any encouragement whatsoever to become a paying member, which I have actually been considering for some time. This consideration has now been ruled out. What a let down for the start of the year![/quote]

If I were you, in light of the above explained details, I would rethink my approach to being effective at getting jobs through ProZ. I am not sure how successful you were so far, what kind of jobs did you get through public postings, but my experience is that the best jobs are usually offered through the directory, not through the public posting system. Getting a decent place in the directory would be my goal, and the starting step to that is getting paid membership. I am not sure if you know that, but there is a money-back guarantee. So, you could try it for a while, and cancel if you don't think it worth it. I vaguely remember seeing some shorter term membership options, or monthly subscription structures as well, but I am not sure - you should check.
There are also partial memberships, one is specifically for jobs.
With 4000 BrowniZ, it would cost you $60.00.
[url removed]

Many freelancers and companies view membership at ProZ or other sites as advertisement, and consider the expense as a marketing expense, a normal part of doing business, an investment, not "losing out".
I agree with this view, I think it is a much better description than looking at it as "paying for the ability to quote on jobs". Advertisements/commercials are not a sure way of getting business, but there must be something in them, otherwise we would not see that many around us, right?

Katalin

[Edited at 2010-01-20 16:28 GMT]

Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 | Recommending Proz

margaret caulfield — Wed, 20 Jan 2010 09:45:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com job systems
Topic: Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010
Poster: margaret caulfield
Post title: Recommending Proz

This is another thing I'd like to point out:

Throughout the time I've been doing full-time translating, I have obviously made acquaintance and even friends with other translators. On many occasions I have found them complaining of a lack of wrok flow so, almost since I registered at Proz in 2003, I have recommended this site to them for them to send their quotes for projects.

Again on many occasions, they opted to become paying members, so Proz has actually "earned" thanks to my intervention, even though I myself am not a paying member (each person knows his/her own financial situation and commitments). I'm afraid this is something I can no longer do. I can hardly recommend a site to someone who is looking for work, i.e. income if he/she has to pay.

I really am so disappointed.

Margaret

Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 | What's the point of being a non-paying member now? Simply helping others?

margaret caulfield — Tue, 19 Jan 2010 22:58:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com job systems
Topic: Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010
Poster: margaret caulfield
Post title: What's the point of being a non-paying member now? Simply helping others?

I had no idea about this change in policy and I've just discovered it through wanting to request a project that asks for bids to be submitted through Proz.

I am so incredibly disappointed! Like Henry Hinds, I also have a great deal of browniz. What can I use them for now?

On the other hand, have you stopped to weigh up the probabilities of being given a project through Proz, considering the worldwide competition? Let's say I apply for 20 projects in one month. What are my probabilities of getting one? 1 in 50? 1 in 40? The cost for my 20 applications would be $20.00, so I'd say I shall definitely be losing out on this one.

Meanwhile, I wonder what those of us with a considerable amount of browniz (earned by offering valid answers to others FREE OF CHARGE) are going to be getting back from Proz in return. Until now, we have been able to ask translation questions and submit bids for job offers. What happens in the case of those of us who ask very few questions? Well, it seems to me that we are now simply going to be working free of charge and nothing else.

This is a tremendous disappointment and, like many other non-paying members, it most definitely does not offer me any encouragement whatsoever to become a paying member, which I have actually been considering for some time. This consideration has now been ruled out. What a let down for the start of the year!

Margaret Caulfield

Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 | Correct

Laurent KRAULAND (X) — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 06:45:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com job systems
Topic: Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010
Poster: Laurent KRAULAND (X)
Post title: Correct

[quote]Henry D wrote:

Many (most?) members never quote, and most never ask a KudoZ question. [/quote]
Correct, at least as far as I am concerned. I hardly ever quote but am contacted through the Connect system, which works fine so far - and the rates offered are acceptable. As per KudoZ, I do my homework as much as possible and would only ask a question in KudoZ when I am at the end of my wits.

[Edited at 2009-12-07 06:46 GMT]

Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 | Correction to Olaf

Henry Dotterer — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 04:01:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com job systems
Topic: Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010
Poster: Henry Dotterer
Post title: Correction to Olaf

[quote]Olaf Knechten wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know the main benefits of ProZ membership are the ability to bid for (badly paid) jobs on this site first and the possibility to ask unlimited kudoz questions. [/quote]
That is incorrect. When it comes to meeting clients, the biggest benefit is that members appear in the first set of results when outsourcers do directory searches.

Many (most?) members never quote, and most never ask a KudoZ question.

Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 | It's worth it

Lucas Rayel — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 19:35:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com job systems
Topic: Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010
Poster: Lucas Rayel
Post title: It's worth it

[quote]Maya Gorgoshidze wrote:

Please take into account that ProZ.com is a for-profit company and it has right to form its own policy accordingly. On the other hand, it is a “community” of course, and we have considerable profit from it. In other words, we make much more money with help of ProZ.com then we would make without it. So why shouldn’t we support the site?

Best regards,
Maya[/quote]

I agree here. I became a member of Proz last month and I've already made 2.5x more the price of the membership. With that said, it's obviously worth to be a member and all I have to do now is to thank Proz existance.

[Edited at 2009-12-06 19:38 GMT]

Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010 | I could not say better...

Jānis Greivuls — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 16:10:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com job systems
Topic: Quoting with browniz points will not be possible after January 1, 2010
Poster: Jānis Greivuls
Post title: I could not say better...

[quote]Ronald van der Linden wrote:

having the browniz system was good, and as I'm not a millionair in browniz I carefully had to select what job offer to use them on...

i do not have money in my wallet, as i don't respond to all job offers, and i'd only need to purchase maybe $ 5 for 3 months... Therefore paying $25 is not appealing. Why doesn't Proz.com have a system like Skype, purchase 10USD as a minimum?

I think that Proz.com is slowly trying to benefit from it's monopoly position, as I only consider one other site (that I cannot mention, as the moderator asked me to "refrain from advertising" djeez!) a true competitor.

The benefit of having a paid membership is something I clearly do not see.
There are many general job sites where you do not have to pay anything to respond to job postings and with a first come, first served basis.

I'd suggest to lower the minimum purchasing amount, actually I'd suggest to lower the membership fee alltogether.

Paying members of this site complain about low prices, but they actually sustain this website, which only pushes prices down. Companies publish a job add, wait, don't really care if a member pays or not, as long as he/she offers want is requiered.

In my opinion, in the end, charging for every single thing, will be the downfall of this site, but not before having made some profit of course.

The next step? Pay for each dictionary search?
Then why not cut to the chase, and act as a priviledged website for paying members only. Kick all the non paying members out, after a trial period of 3 months.

[Bijgewerkt op 2009-12-03 23:26 GMT] [/quote]