ProZ.com Translation Forums

Technically challenging test translation | PS

Heather McCrae — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 06:17:00 +0000

Forum: General technical issues
Topic: Technically challenging test translation
Poster: Heather McCrae
Post title: PS

FYI, these days (with Trados 2007 or SDL 2011) it usually takes me around 5 minutes from receipt of files to set up the entire project and be ready to start translation. As you can now receive project packages from agencies to use in 2011, the process can be even quicker, just open, add any TM you think would be useful and away you go!
When I first started using 2011, it was learning on the fly and I was tearing my hair out on a regular basis for the first couple of weeks, but thanks to a certain Paul on the Proz Trados forum, I managed to learn it ( and I still dont know all the features :)) no time to sit and go through it all).

Technically challenging test translation | if you have got it

Heather McCrae — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 06:10:00 +0000

Forum: General technical issues
Topic: Technically challenging test translation
Poster: Heather McCrae
Post title: if you have got it

you should really know how to use it.
If you tell a customer that you can use Trados (whichever version) then you should really know how to use the software and deal with the files you receive.

But, I would certainly not do a 500 word test translation for free! In fact, I do not do any free test translations anymore and I tell the agencies, sorry, but been ripped off in the past and that is not going to happen again.

If you do do a paid translation using Trados and the customer provides you with a TM, then you have to use that TM, otherwise you are not meeting the parameters of the test and not using the terminology they have provided. This is a big no go for many agencies/companies as a lot of technical translations are very end-customer orientated, many of whom have very specialised terminology.

For all those who find Trados hard, don't give up! There is so much online help available and training courses, etc. Also the Trados forum is useful.

I absolutely hated Trados at first, but being a technical translator, it has turned out to be immensely useful and saves me a huge amount of time, especially as I get a lot of work along the same lines. It is an incredibly useful resource (TM), source of inspiration (concordance) and helps me maintain quality. I have to say it functions along the lines of input = output, so the more you use it, the more useful it is.

good luck :)

Technically challenging test translation | Not a total luddite

neilmac — Sun, 10 Nov 2013 18:43:00 +0000

Forum: General technical issues
Topic: Technically challenging test translation
Poster: neilmac
Post title: Not a total luddite

[quote]Marion Plath wrote:

I love your answer! :-) Seriously, it is good to know that not the whole translation industry is overly technologised. Trados can be useful if you translate texts with lots of repetitions, but to me it is just a tool and certainly only that and not more. For a lot of texts, it is rather useless though. It can cause problems for translators that were not there before its existence. [/quote]

Just so you don't think I'm slaving away here with a bit of slate and some chalk, I should add that I do use Wordfast Classic myself nowadays, but not because anyone railroaded me into it - I simply fancied keeping it after trying it out a few years ago, but I still don't use all of its features. I'd checked out Trados with a user colleague (he hates it too and wishes it were simpler, but says he's stuck with it now after several years) but it just seemed overly technical and complicated for me.

Technically challenging test translation | I guess I've been lucky

Phil Hand — Sun, 10 Nov 2013 08:56:00 +0000

Forum: General technical issues
Topic: Technically challenging test translation
Poster: Phil Hand
Post title: I guess I've been lucky

[quote]Bernhard Sulzer wrote:

How good do you think are your chances, Phil, to get that job? Why do it in the first place? I don't think the test is for those you won't comply with everything the outsourcer expects of them. [/quote]

I have successfully signed up with agencies and received jobs after doing exactly this. If the agency is more concerned with my technical capabilities than my linguistic capabilities, I probably don't want to work with them anyway. Win-win!

Technically challenging test translation | I couldn't agree more with Bernhard

Shai Navé — Sat, 09 Nov 2013 19:57:00 +0000

Forum: General technical issues
Topic: Technically challenging test translation
Poster: Shai Navé
Post title: I couldn't agree more with Bernhard

A great summary answer for this discussion as well as similar ones that are opened every now and then.
Invaluable advice and insight that I recommend every (especially new) professional to follow.

Technically challenging test translation | Computers are fine

Grazia Brunello — Sat, 09 Nov 2013 19:35:00 +0000

Forum: General technical issues
Topic: Technically challenging test translation
Poster: Grazia Brunello
Post title: Computers are fine

[quote]Phil Hand wrote:

[quote]hermione08 wrote:

The "funny" thing is that for the DipTrans you are not even allowed to use the internet, let alone CAT tools. And yet nowadays it seems the only way to be a translator is to also have diploma in IT.
Just saying :) [/quote]

I find this aspect tough as well. But I also think we all have to get used to it - computers aren't going away.

I love computers, what I don't like as much is that a profession that used to be based mainly on the knowledge of languages, is quickly becoming one based on the knowledge of computer programmes. Which, by the way, are not exactly cheap or user friendly.

Technically challenging test translation | A test for what?

Bernhard Sulzer — Sat, 09 Nov 2013 19:15:00 +0000

Forum: General technical issues
Topic: Technically challenging test translation
Poster: Bernhard Sulzer
Post title: A test for what?

[quote]Phil Hand wrote:

[quote]hermione08 wrote:

The "funny" thing is that for the DipTrans you are not even allowed to use the internet, let alone CAT tools. And yet nowadays it seems the only way to be a translator is to also have diploma in IT.
Just saying :) [/quote]

I find this aspect tough as well. But I also think we all have to get used to it - computers aren't going away.
[/quote]

We've all been using computers for a long time and many of us use CAT tools and learn more about them every year.

I use the tools I have learned to use and if there are questions I ask.
But when it comes to tests or real projects, I am wary of too many technical requirements, especially online wonder software. The support they're supposedly giving might turn out to be a dud.

No matter what it is or what you call it, an unpaid or a paid test/project, I want to know exactly what the original text looks like before it's put into the CAT tool or has to be accessed inside an online translation system.
The original author is hardly using a CAT tool to create the text, and neither is the target audience in order to read the translated version.

What I am trying to say is that in order to evaluate the text, I want to see it as an easily readable document/text. Then I take into account other factors such as what CAT tool I use, if any, and what impact possible repetitions in the text will have on my work process.

Requiring CAT tools is certainly appropriate in many cases. Expectations of automatic and arbitrary discounts are not. And if you don't review an original text carefully in its entirety in an easily readable format, especially if it is long, you might be surprised what you've gotten yourself into if you based your commitment to a project on the analysis performed by a CAT tool and if you have accepted discounts for 100% and other fuzzy and fuzzier matches, as determined arbitrarily by your client
Think about that boldfaced phrase for a second.

So what is this test for? To see how good of a translator or CAT tool user you are?
Or how new you are and whether or not you are willing to accept anything your client asks of you, including how much they pay or pay not? Would that be a good start to a healthy business relationship? Trust me, it's not.

[quote]Phil Hand wrote:
@Marion
I personally would ignore all the extraneous files associated with the test. I have never worked on an online system quick enough to make it efficient, so I would ignore their online TM. I'd do the test, send it in with an explanation of what I'd done, and they can either like it or lump it. If an agency wants me to learn its IT systems, it will have to demonstrate to me that it has plenty of work first. [/quote]

How good do you think are your chances, Phil, to get that job? Why do it in the first place? I don't think the test is for those you won't comply with everything the outsourcer expects of them.

[Edited at 2013-11-09 19:34 GMT]

Technically challenging test translation | Seconded

Phil Hand — Sat, 09 Nov 2013 16:06:00 +0000

Forum: General technical issues
Topic: Technically challenging test translation
Poster: Phil Hand
Post title: Seconded

[quote]hermione08 wrote:

The "funny" thing is that for the DipTrans you are not even allowed to use the internet, let alone CAT tools. And yet nowadays it seems the only way to be a translator is to also have diploma in IT.
Just saying :) [/quote]

I find this aspect tough as well. But I also think we all have to get used to it - computers aren't going away.

@Marion
I personally would ignore all the extraneous files associated with the test. I have never worked on an online system quick enough to make it efficient, so I would ignore their online TM. I'd do the test, send it in with an explanation of what I'd done, and they can either like it or lump it. If an agency wants me to learn its IT systems, it will have to demonstrate to me that it has plenty of work first.

Technically challenging test translation | CAT Tools

Grazia Brunello — Sat, 09 Nov 2013 13:41:00 +0000

Forum: General technical issues
Topic: Technically challenging test translation
Poster: Grazia Brunello
Post title: CAT Tools

The "funny" thing is that for the DipTrans you are not even allowed to use the internet, let alone CAT tools. And yet nowadays it seems the only way to be a translator is to also have diploma in IT.
Just saying :)

Technically challenging test translation | @Andrzej and @Orrin

Samuel Murray — Sat, 09 Nov 2013 12:40:00 +0000

Forum: General technical issues
Topic: Technically challenging test translation
Poster: Samuel Murray
Post title: @Andrzej and @Orrin

[quote]Marion Plath wrote:
[quote]Andrzej Lejman wrote:
What is really challenging here? It's a routine work of most translators. You must be aware that different CAT tools and file formats exist and you have to manage them, otherwise you may not get work anymore. [/quote]
Is it? I think it depends on the industries you work for. There are translators who are not using CAT tools, so what about them? I didn't learn about handling different file formats when I did my diploma in translation. Isn't it allowed not to know eveything about the technical side of translation? [/quote]

I do disagree with Andrzej's final statement that implies that translators must know how to use these formats and/or programs, otherwise they won't get jobs. There are many, many translators who don't use CAT tools or who work for client who don't require CAT tools.... and that applies to both direct clients and agency clients, and it applies to both technical and non-technical work.

On the other hand, I do think that the client's expectations are understandable. Hence my comment about using Notepad instead of MS Word -- clients have certain expectations about what translators can handle, and so do we all.

For example: I used to think that the most basic tool that every translator should be able to handle is MS Word, but then I went to work inhouse at a translation department whose translators were not expected to use anything more complex than Notepad. Another example: I used to think that all translators do editing/proofreading of MS Word files inside MS Word, often using tracked changes, until a regular client contacted me in a panic because an editor did the proofreading by printing out the files, making changes using a pencil and writing comments and corrections in longhand, and then scanning the files to TIFF, saying "oh, that's how I do it with all my clients, and no-one has ever complained".

In the same way, clients who regularly work with translators who regularly use these tools may have come to expect all translators to be able to handle it, and you should feel free to educate the client and tell them exactly what you can and can't do.

[quote][quote]Orrin Cummins wrote:
At what point did the agency inform you that a test translation (of any kind) would be required as part of the application process? Was it before or after you jumped through the numerous other hoops? [/quote]
I was informed of the test translation after I had jumped through the other hoops... I sent my CV, application form, copies of certificates and then I was asked for a test. [/quote]

I did not comment on this previously because I did not think that it matters to your original question, but just in case you're wondering whether my silence on the issue implies that I think it is reasonable for clients to do that, allow me to say: clients should tell you beforehand.

On the other hand, translators who have applied to dozens or scores of agencies will be able to tell you that you can't always rely on the client to tell you what the entire application process is.

In my opinion, the safest thing for a translator to do (as I surmise Marion is already doing) is to decide beforehand what you are willing to do and not willing to do, and take the initiative in asking the client about it. See, there are a number of things that come standard with many application processes, and that includes filling in an online form, signing an NDA, signing an agreement, being set up in an online invoicing system, sending references, sending diplomas, sending your CV, and doing a free or paid test translation. The translator should decide beforehand which of those things he is unwilling to do, and then ask the client about it upfront, to avoid surprises later.

I agree that clients should mention the test translation or the rate they're willing to pay *before* they send you the various contracts to sign, but unfortunately they often don't, and if you want to avoid surprises, you have to be proactive.

[Edited at 2013-11-09 13:46 GMT]

Technically challenging test translation | @Marion -- you're right

Samuel Murray — Sat, 09 Nov 2013 12:11:00 +0000

Forum: General technical issues
Topic: Technically challenging test translation
Poster: Samuel Murray
Post title: @Marion -- you're right

[quote]Marion Plath wrote:
I'm verry sorry that you don't agree with something that I wrote to another participant, Samuel. ... I would like to ask you to be a bit more sensitive about the wording you use. You have used terms like "claim" and "confess" which are highly inappropriate in this context... [/quote]

You're right, "confess" was inappropriate. Believe me, it was meant as humour. A more appropriate word would be "admit", right? I'm sorry you feel that "claim" is an inappropriate word. Perhaps you can tell me a better word? I often say that "I claim to be able to translate in Trados", and I didn't realise that I may have been saying something negative.

[quote]I asked for advice and are made to feel as if I needed to justify myself. ... But I was only asking for some friendly advice. [/quote]

Allow me to repeat what I said previously, namely that [i]you did nothing wrong[/i] and that the best solution is to tell the client that you are confused with his request or that you don't understand his request or that you don't know how to handle his files in your program, etc.

It is perfectly understandable to feel uncertain about a request from an agency, partly because it is natural to assume that the agency knows better. However, we can all assure you that if you had told the client that you have Trados 2009 and the client then sent you Trados 2007 files to work on, [i]then it is the client who is confused[/i]... not you.

Technically challenging test translation | I see

Orrin Cummins — Sat, 09 Nov 2013 11:55:00 +0000

Forum: General technical issues
Topic: Technically challenging test translation
Poster: Orrin Cummins
Post title: I see

[quote]Marion Plath wrote:

@Orrin: I was informed of the test translation after I had jumped through the other hoops... I sent my CV, application form, copies of certificates and then I was asked for a test. [/quote]

That is pretty sneaky. It makes me wonder what else an agency like that would withhold until the last minute.

I had the opposite experience earlier this year with a large Japanese company. The very first thing they had me do was a short test translation (which was in Notepad, believe it or not); only upon completing that to their satisfaction was I given the rest of the incredibly arduous and drawn-out application process.

Technically challenging test translation | Several replies

MPTranslate — Sat, 09 Nov 2013 11:32:00 +0000

Forum: General technical issues
Topic: Technically challenging test translation
Poster: MPTranslate
Post title: Several replies

@Bernhard: Thanks for the link. I did quote an average rate and got a positive reply, but only a general one, "sounds good" or something like that. I certainly avoid the "give me your best rate" agencies and always check agencies on the Blueboard. Oh, and the test is unpaid! I wouldn't generally refuse test translations (probably I would if I was more established), but they should have a reasonable length. I agree, a test like they sent me should be paid.

@Sarah: Thanks, I suspect this, too. It is quite shocking what some agencies try to get away with.

@Andrzej: Is it? I think it depends on the industries you work for. There are translators who are not using CAT tools, so what about them? I didn't learn about handling different file formats when I did my diploma in translation. Isn't it allowed not to know eveything about the technical side of translation?

@Orrin: I was informed of the test translation after I had jumped through the other hoops... I sent my CV, application form, copies of certificates and then I was asked for a test.

Technically challenging test translation | My question:

Orrin Cummins — Sat, 09 Nov 2013 10:35:00 +0000

Forum: General technical issues
Topic: Technically challenging test translation
Poster: Orrin Cummins
Post title: My question:

At what point did the agency inform you that a test translation (of any kind) would be required as part of the application process? Was it before or after you jumped through the numerous other hoops?

Technically challenging test translation | What is really challenging here?

Andrzej Lejman — Sat, 09 Nov 2013 10:18:00 +0000

Forum: General technical issues
Topic: Technically challenging test translation
Poster: Andrzej Lejman
Post title: What is really challenging here?

It's a routine work of most translators.

You must be aware that different CAT tools and file formats exist and you have to manage them, otherwise you may not get work anymore.

Regards

A.

Technically challenging test translation | @Samuel

MPTranslate — Sat, 09 Nov 2013 07:55:00 +0000

Forum: General technical issues
Topic: Technically challenging test translation
Poster: MPTranslate
Post title: @Samuel

[quote]Samuel Murray wrote:

[quote]Seriously, it is good to know that not the whole translation industry is overly technologised. Trados can be useful if you translate texts with lots of repetitions, but to me it is just a tool and certainly only that and not more. [/quote]

You could say the same thing about MS Word. After all, why can't the client judge your translation skills in Notepad, or in a handwritten translation written on bond paper?

[Edited at 2013-11-08 19:05 GMT] [/quote]

I'm verry sorry that you don't agree with something that I wrote to another participant Samuel, obviously I shouldn't have said that the CAT tool Trados is just a tool for me [end of sarcasm]. I just picked this quote as an example of your way of giving advice. I appreciate you take a lot of time for commenting, but I would like to ask you to be a bit more sensitive about the wording you use. You have used terms like "claim" and "confess" which are highly inappropriate in this context and would better fit in a court than here. I asked for advice and are made to feel as if I needed to justify myself.
If wanted a heated discussion, I would post a controversial subject. But I was only asking for some friendly advice. Maybe heated discussions are your style, but I would like to politely ask you to respect that I am not looking for argumentative posts when posting an innocent question.

Technically challenging test translation | Is this a paid test?

Yasutomo Kanazawa — Sat, 09 Nov 2013 01:53:00 +0000

Forum: General technical issues
Topic: Technically challenging test translation
Poster: Yasutomo Kanazawa
Post title: Is this a paid test?

If not so, tell them to pay you, or else simply refuse.

Technically challenging test translation | This sounds like it's not a test

Sarah McDowell — Sat, 09 Nov 2013 00:57:00 +0000

Forum: General technical issues
Topic: Technically challenging test translation
Poster: Sarah McDowell
Post title: This sounds like it's not a test

Unfortunately, I suspect that this isn't a test but part of an actual project. The fact that it's so long and such a complicated file format would make me suspicious.

Sarah

Technically challenging test translation | Are you naive to expect only a Word or Excel doc when I am asked for a test translation?

Rachel Fell — Sat, 09 Nov 2013 00:55:00 +0000

Forum: General technical issues
Topic: Technically challenging test translation
Poster: Rachel Fell
Post title: Are you naive to expect only a Word or Excel doc when I am asked for a test translation?

I wouldn't have thought so.

Technically challenging test translation | Don't recommend mixing old and new

Bernhard Sulzer — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 22:13:00 +0000

Forum: General technical issues
Topic: Technically challenging test translation
Poster: Bernhard Sulzer
Post title: Don't recommend mixing old and new

[quote]Samuel Murray wrote:

[quote]Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
The agency should work with newer versions. The year is 2013. [/quote]

Whether this is true depends on the CAT tool...

[/quote]

Just saying, there are plenty of problems that can occur when various versions of different software are used and/or mixed to create and then translate/edit a project.
I had my own share of experiences with, for example, CAT tool 2007 and word processing software 2010, so that's different from what Marion seems to be faced with here. Nevertheless, mixing different versions is never a good idea. I didn't like CAT tool 2007 anymore because you could easily damage or lose the delimiting source or target markers and the segment became damaged. Fixing it became quite a task. In addition, in certain situations, the old CAT tool slows down your work to a snail's pace. This can happen with long documents when using older CAT tool versions in word processing programs.
Also, I still wouldn't want to work let's say in CAT tool 2009 or whatever newer version if the client sent an old 2007 version. There are too many possible problems that can occur.
I understand that if all is created and translated in the same versions of the software programs you use and you are familiar with these, it can be easier, but I found the newer version actually easier and with fewer potential problems.

See also:
[url removed]

[url removed]

[Edited at 2013-11-08 23:56 GMT]

Technically challenging test translation | @Bernhard

Samuel Murray — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 21:32:00 +0000

Forum: General technical issues
Topic: Technically challenging test translation
Poster: Samuel Murray
Post title: @Bernhard

[quote]Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
The agency should work with newer versions. The year is 2013. [/quote]

Whether this is true depends on the CAT tool... and it doesn't apply to Trados 2007 versus Trados 2009/11/14. Trados 2007 is much, much simpler to work with. If you have Trados 2007 and you can find clients who prefer working in it, then I'd say: be thankful for every bit of sanity in this world.

Technically challenging test translation | Goddard's rule of sample translations

philgoddard — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 19:14:00 +0000

Forum: General technical issues
Topic: Technically challenging test translation
Poster: philgoddard
Post title: Goddard's rule of sample translations

The quantity of information the customer asks for, and the length of the sample translation, are in inverse proportion to the probability of their giving you any work. If x is the number of words, and y is the number of certificates they require, then if x > 300 or y > 0, the probability is zero.

Technically challenging test translation | the old CAT tools

Bernhard Sulzer — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 19:10:00 +0000

Forum: General technical issues
Topic: Technically challenging test translation
Poster: Bernhard Sulzer
Post title: the old CAT tools

Can't recommend trying to solve the project provided for an older CAT tool by using a newer version. I don't use the older ones any more. The newer ones are much better and easier. There's going to be too many issues you can run into. Not worth the hassle.
The agency should work with newer versions. The year is 2013.

Technically challenging test translation | @Marion

Samuel Murray — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 19:01:00 +0000

Forum: General technical issues
Topic: Technically challenging test translation
Poster: Samuel Murray
Post title: @Marion

[quote]Marion Plath wrote:
I have Trados 2009 Freelance; I used Trados 2009 already when I was an in-house translator but it seems we worked in a different way than this agency expects me to. [/quote]

Okay, well, the client sent you Trados 2007 files, and although the Trados developers claim that you can handle Trados 2007 files in Trados 2009, it is not a simple affair. I googled a bit and found [url= [url removed] ]a guide that might help you[/url], but I could not download it myself because the web site does not work in my browser.

[quote]I didn't claim to be able to handle certain files. I found their instructions a bit insufficient but I guess that's part of their test. [/quote]

It may be that they're so used to working with translators who know what the instructions mean that they did not realise that you need more instructions than the other translators. Do not be so quick to assume that they're acting in bad faith. Who knows... maybe they're willing to provide the files in a different format, or willing to show you how to open it in your program.

Did you claim that you have Trados? If so, did you specify the version number? But hey, perhaps their PM is ignorant of the fact that Trados 2007 is outdated...

[quote]...and at the end of it all they come up with a simulated "real project" test. I'm actually wondering if anyone apart from me is still left at this stage of their "selection process". [/quote]

FWIW, the test would not have scared me off.

[quote]Seriously, it is good to know that not the whole translation industry is overly technologised. Trados can be useful if you translate texts with lots of repetitions, but to me it is just a tool and certainly only that and not more. [/quote]

You could say the same thing about MS Word. After all, why can't the client judge your translation skills in Notepad, or in a handwritten translation written on bond paper?

[quote]Marion Plath wrote:
[quote]Rudolf Vedo CT wrote:
The *.ini file contains customer-specific tag settings. You activate it in [b]TagEditor[/b] with Tools>Tag Settings>Open>[browse to your ini file]. Then try to open your ttx files. [/quote]
Thanks Rudolf. I will give it a try. [/quote]

I'm afraid that you can't "give it a try" because Rudolf's instructions are for Trados 2007 (i.e. TagEditor) and not for Trados 2009.

[Edited at 2013-11-08 19:05 GMT]

Technically challenging test translation | legitimate agency? permanent work?

Bernhard Sulzer — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 18:57:00 +0000

Forum: General technical issues
Topic: Technically challenging test translation
Poster: Bernhard Sulzer
Post title: legitimate agency? permanent work?

I see you addressed a few things already. But let me say a few more things.

[quote]Marion Plath wrote:

@Samuel, @Tomás
I have Trados 2009 Freelance; I used Trados 2009 already when I was an in-house translator but it seems we worked in a different way than this agency expects me to. I didn't claim to be able to handle certain files. I found their instructions a bit insufficient but I guess that's part of their test.
[/quote]
Imagine this is a real project. Are you going to solve the technical issues all by yourself, even though the instructions are shaky to you? Clear and easy instructions are a must to accept any job.

[quote]Marion Plath wrote:
@Natalia, @Shai
Thank you for the warning. I made sure that it is a legitimate agency before I applied, so I don't think they are doing this to score free work. The job is a permanent project, so I can understand that they want to make sure they have the right person. But still, it's a lot of effort and invested time on my side, almost like an employee job application. I sent them a personalised application letter (I stated my rates there), my CV, even copies of my certificates, filled in their application form and at the end of it all they come up with a simulated "real project" test. I'm actually wondering if anyone apart from me is still left at this stage of their "selection process". Thanks Shai, I am still on the lookout for good clients, the way there is quite bumpy...
[/quote]

There are myriads of agencies out there you might call "legitimate" but they might be exploiting translators (especially new ones) anyway by paying unacceptably low rates, paying them late, and expecting arbitrary CAT tool discounts. Only when you get to the point where they owe you money, you'll find out how "legitimate" they really are (minus those that ask for your best rates and promise permanent work from the beginning). Not saying there aren't any good agencies out there that I would consider legitimate.

You say you sent them your rates. Did they reply that these rates would be acceptable?
Of course, I don't know what rates you suggested, but if they are lower than the average rates posted on Proz.com (see link below), then you are not being paid adequately - no matter how many millions of words they will have for you. That's another trick in some agencies' books to promise you continuous projects and expect you to work for low rates.
Keep in mind that there are never any guarantees, especially from agencies that look for the cheapest way to get a relatively good or even excellent service from translators.

You said you filled out an application. Sounds to me they already have the upper hand. I assume you read everything carefully. But they will not be abiding by your terms, but you by theirs.

I know it's hard to get good clients, but it's not worth getting ripped off.
Don't waste your mind.

[url removed]

[Edited at 2013-11-08 22:49 GMT]

Technically challenging test translation | There is hope! :-)

MPTranslate — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 18:45:00 +0000

Forum: General technical issues
Topic: Technically challenging test translation
Poster: MPTranslate
Post title: There is hope! :-)

[quote]neilmac wrote:

Although I have been working full-time as a translator now for at least 15 years, I don't use Trados and would be just as baffled if any agency or other potential client sent me anything like what you describe. I don't even know what an ini.file is either, even after reading Rudolf’s explanation, but since I don’t use the big T and am never likely to, it’s just another detail that I don’t need to know right now.

My advice is not to worry about it too much - AFAIK there is plenty of work going in your pair without having to jump through these dispiriting hoops.

PS: I should add that I have translated several texts containing the term "ini.file", but have never bothered to find out what it actually is or does :-) [/quote]

I love your answer! :-) Seriously, it is good to know that not the whole translation industry is overly technologised. Trados can be useful if you translate texts with lots of repetitions, but to me it is just a tool and certainly only that and not more. For a lot of texts, it is rather useless though. It can cause problems for translators that were not there before its existence.

Technically challenging test translation | treat everything like a real project, not a test, and avoid issues

Bernhard Sulzer — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 18:39:00 +0000

Forum: General technical issues
Topic: Technically challenging test translation
Poster: Bernhard Sulzer
Post title: treat everything like a real project, not a test, and avoid issues

[quote]Marion Plath wrote:

Hi,

I received a very confusing test translation from an agency. They sent me a folder including an analysis file, ini file, ttx files to translate, reference files and a TM export which I should access via an ftp server, they provided me a temporary password.

Am I naive to expect only a Word or Excel doc when I am asked for a test translation?
To be honest, I don't really understand what I am expected to do. What is the analysis file and ini file for? I am supposed to implement the ini file into Trados, so I tried to open this file with Trados but it didn't work. I know how to use Trados for translation and how to export/import a TM but I am not a technical whiz to be honest. I am good with languages, this is why I am a translator.

Can anyone shed some light on this? Did you ever get test translations like that? It seems to be more a test of my IT skills than my language skills. Should I ask them to explain something they seem to take for granted? Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I am a bit confused to get such a kind of test.

Thank you.

[/quote]

I never did a test like that. Is this paid for or are you supposed to do this for free?
I no longer do free test translations, and paid test translations are just as any other projects and I suggest treating them like that, incl. telling them what you expect THEM to pay for it or refuse their offer if it is way below what you expect/deserve to earn. You said it is a "technically challenging" project - I would never do any challenging test/project for free or for cheap. You set yourself up to be treated like that again and again.

Also, if there are technical issues or questions you have, they need to be addressed by them.
I work in Trados 2009, and I accept projects/packages that can be easily opened. Don't take anything on that remains unclear to you.

Did you research the company? What will they be able to offer you IF you "win" the test translation competition? Are they aware of the rates you expect? Are they on blueboard? If they are already confusing you, chances are, it won't get better.
The bigger the test and the more they demand (and I assume it's unpaid), the less professional they are - my opinion.

Take care!

B

[Edited at 2013-11-08 19:34 GMT]

Technically challenging test translation | Legitimate agency

MPTranslate — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 18:34:00 +0000

Forum: General technical issues
Topic: Technically challenging test translation
Poster: MPTranslate
Post title: Legitimate agency

@Samuel, @Tomás
I have Trados 2009 Freelance; I used Trados 2009 already when I was an in-house translator but it seems we worked in a different way than this agency expects me to. I didn't claim to be able to handle certain files. I found their instructions a bit insufficient but I guess that's part of their test.

@Natalia, @Shai
Thank you for the warning. I made sure that it is a legitimate agency before I applied, so I don't think they are doing this to score free work. The job is a permanent project, so I can understand that they want to make sure they have the right person. But still, it's a lot of effort and invested time on my side, almost like an employee job application. I sent them a personalised application letter (I stated my rates there), my CV, even copies of my certificates, filled in their application form and at the end of it all they come up with a simulated "real project" test. I'm actually wondering if anyone apart from me is still left at this stage of their "selection process". Thanks Shai, I am still on the lookout for good clients, the way there is quite bumpy...

Technically challenging test translation | Don't worry

neilmac — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 18:32:00 +0000

Forum: General technical issues
Topic: Technically challenging test translation
Poster: neilmac
Post title: Don't worry

Although I have been working full-time as a translator now for at least 15 years, I don't use Trados and would be just as baffled if any agency or other potential client sent me anything like what you describe. I don't even know what an ini.file is either, even after reading Rudolf’s explanation, but since I don’t use the big T and am never likely to, it’s just another detail that I don’t need to know right now.

My advice is not to worry about it too much - AFAIK there is plenty of work going in your pair without having to jump through these dispiriting hoops.

PS: I should add that I have translated several texts containing the term "ini.file", but have never bothered to find out what it actually is or does :-)

Technically challenging test translation | Some red flags

Shai Navé — Fri, 08 Nov 2013 17:45:00 +0000

Forum: General technical issues
Topic: Technically challenging test translation
Poster: Shai Navé
Post title: Some red flags

While not conclusive, this whole scenario has some tell-tale signs of trying to score free work under a false pretense.

I would suggest refusing this alleged test. Even if it is a test, a rule-of-thumb is that the amount of paperwork and other hoops a client (especially agency client) tries to get you going through just for the "privilege" of maybe working with them is in inverse correlation to the quality of relationships and the amount of actual business that you will do with them. In other words, this whole thing is probably a waste of time on your part.

Also, their dictating tone and refusal to negotiate by stating their "standards" tells a lot about what you can expect in the future: they dictating the terms and you accepting or rejecting them, no room for professional negotiation and considerations. This is usually typical to brokers who don't value your services and tend to chose their business partners by obedience rather than merit, and this type of clients become an anchor on your career development.

I strongly advise to avoid such an alleged low-tier broker and focus your efforts on potential clients that deserve and worth your time.

[Edited at 2013-11-08 17:47 GMT]