ProZ.com Translation Forums

Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects? | It depends

Muriel Vasconcellos (X) — Sun, 03 Jul 2016 03:57:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects?
Poster: Muriel Vasconcellos (X)
Post title: It depends

I postedit text using a very high-quality machine translation system developed by one of my clients. This client pays better than what most agencies offer for regular translation. I've been doing it for 30 years, so I know how to handle the output. If the output is too scrambled (which can happen, especially if the input has been OCR'd), one always has the option of shifting to human translation.

I would never do this for a low rate.

Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects? | No

LingoKat — Sat, 02 Jul 2016 03:53:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects?
Poster: LingoKat
Post title: No

I did it once, years ago, and I ended up rewriting the whole thing.

However, I have stopped offering proofreading services altogether and I think it shouldn't necessarily be assumed that a good translator is a good proofreader and vice versa.

Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects? | Proofreading

Mario Chavez (X) — Sat, 02 Jul 2016 01:26:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects?
Poster: Mario Chavez (X)
Post title: Proofreading

I have read with some degree of dismay the attitude of not offering proofreading services, apparently because of past experience with poorly written translations.

I've had my share of proofreading subpar translations, but I can't see why I should deprive myself of the pleasure of proofreading someone else's work. The skills needed to proofread a writing are somewhat different from the ones we employ to translate, but we need to develop those skills.

Consider this: if you are so good at translation that you eschew proofreading someone else's job, how would you react to a fellow translator not wanting to proofread your work? You're doing a disservice to the customer —who may well be offering translation AND proofreading services— and to the profession out of sheer pride and misplaced concern.

[Edited at 2016-07-02 01:27 GMT]

Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects? | Please don't allow this plague to invade our market!

Mario Freitas — Sat, 02 Jul 2016 00:29:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects?
Poster: Mario Freitas
Post title: Please don't allow this plague to invade our market!

Although this has been a trend for a while, it seems to have been fading out lately (thank God).
As decent professionals, we should do all we can to prevent this horrendous plague from invading our market. IF you have worked on any of these, you know that it requires the same amount of work or even more than a regular translation. It's a "smart-ass" move against us. I hope we all notice that and abominate this practice.

Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects? | Stem the tide

Kristina Cosumano (X) — Fri, 01 Jul 2016 21:14:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects?
Poster: Kristina Cosumano (X)
Post title: Stem the tide

An agency which sends me more or less regular work asked me to help them out recently. They sent me a source text and its translation, and asked for my opinion and whether it needed to be re-translated or just have changes made to it.
Now, I couldn't figure out whether this was a case of a client complaining about a mediocre translation, or whether the agency was testing some new MT method and wanted to try it out on a translator. It wasn't MT, but looked as if someone was using MT and doing a bad job of "fixing" things. I made sure to tell them just what was wrong with it, and that it may as well be re-translated as the translator will get no help from the target text as it were.
In the end they came back and asked me to re-translate, so I guess it was the first case after all (unfortunately I couldn't help them at the time) but the second certainly seemed plausible.

I also refuse PEMT projects. I don't see the point of working so hard on something so boring, for so little money.

[Edited at 2016-07-01 21:15 GMT]

Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects? | MT isn't free

Mario Chavez (X) — Fri, 01 Jul 2016 17:14:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects?
Poster: Mario Chavez (X)
Post title: MT isn't free

[quote]LegalTransform wrote:

... but at the same rate as standard translation.

I never understood why translators offer reduced rates for pseudo-translation post-editing?

The machine translation is FREE to anyone. So, why should I give a discount for receiving such a file?

[/quote]

Machine translation is not necessarily Google Translate. I have worked with MT-generated translations and I needed to rewrite large passages, despite the fact that the client was paying a third party to customize the machine translation engine to client's specifications.

I did MT-postediting and got paid a generous hourly rate because I demanded it. Before we dismiss MT postediting so offhand, in a knee-jerk reaction, we should do some due diligence first, get the facts, talk to people who have already done it, not to the complainers who know little about MT.

Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects? | No

Richard Jenkins — Fri, 01 Jul 2016 16:53:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects?
Poster: Richard Jenkins
Post title: No

I don't. Is there anything else I should say?

Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects? | You can accept the project...

Jeff Whittaker — Fri, 01 Jul 2016 15:22:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects?
Poster: Jeff Whittaker
Post title: You can accept the project...

... but at the same rate as standard translation.

I never understood why translators offer reduced rates for pseudo-translation post-editing?

The machine translation is FREE to anyone. So, why should I give a discount for receiving such a file?

Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects? | So many answers

Mario Chavez (X) — Fri, 01 Jul 2016 15:17:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects?
Poster: Mario Chavez (X)
Post title: So many answers

A work friend once told me Statistics is the science of intentions.

I used to take statistical percentages of a given topic on faith. Over time, I learned to read the intent behind the questions and started to understand statistics better.

It's not a question of math or higher understanding of numbers, but an old-age matter of social manipulation.

Accepting a particular job, whether it's proofreading an MT-generated document to salvage or translating a document with your least-favored CAT tool, or doing it blindfolded with a pencil, it's not a matter of wisdom because each project comes with its own circumstances.

Put it another way, the poll's question is tendentious and wants to elicit a particular response. The pollster is not interested in what you think but in what percentages he or she can show others as “proof” of his/her opinion, served up as fact.

I could easily ask if it is wise to get up at 8 a.m. in the morning or at 10:30 a.m. instead. Or ask if it is wise for a translator to use an Android smartphone.

The human brain is capable of much better stuff than this. I refuse to be this poll's performing monkey. I don't think in soundbites and neither should any of you.

Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects? | Hello, sister!

Katrin Bosse (X) — Fri, 01 Jul 2016 13:49:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects?
Poster: Katrin Bosse (X)
Post title: Hello, sister!

[quote]Susana Magnani wrote:

when approached by new direct clients or agencies, I make it very clear that, right at the beginning, I don't offer proofreading under any circumstances. Only after establishing a mutually convenient business relationship and confirming their quality standards, do I accept proofreading. So far, this method has worked just fine. I can guarantee that every text I've proofread has come from a human. [/quote]

This is exactly what I do, and it works! The quality of offers has increased, while at the same time barring all the immoral let's-take-advantage-of-a highly-trained-professional-to-clean-up-this-cheap-crap offers from my threshold. :-P

Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects? | NO WAY!

Susana Magnani — Fri, 01 Jul 2016 12:36:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects?
Poster: Susana Magnani
Post title: NO WAY!

[quote]Katrin Bosse wrote:

Since four years now, I only do proofreading for very select clients and colleagues and take on only a handful of offers altogether. I hate proofreading in general, it's always trouble and too much of it for too little money.

[/quote]

I agree with Katrin: I hate proofreading to begin with. If it was up to me, I'd only do translation, but I do have to keep offering proofreading services to my good and loyal clients, who hire very experienced and reliable translators, making the review process pretty simple and even quite profitable.

However, when approached by new direct clients or agencies, I make it very clear that, right at the beginning, I don't offer proofreading under any circumstances. Only after establishing a mutually convenient business relationship and confirming their quality standards, do I accept proofreading. So far, this method has worked just fine. I can guarantee that every text I've proofread has come from a human.

Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects? | No, but I have a different view on MT

José Henrique Lamensdorf — Fri, 01 Jul 2016 12:03:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects?
Poster: José Henrique Lamensdorf
Post title: No, but I have a different view on MT

I expected MT to play a different role in the marketplace, I expected it to fill the needs of all bottom-feeders so that cheap, unqualified/incompetent translators would be motivated to seek another way to eke out a living.

Now and then I'm hired to fix/salvage/redo some horribly bad translation work. Upon probing, I realize that it is human translation done at half my market-average rates or less. And upon perusal, I notice that despite the flaws being different in their nature, the overall quality is equivalent to what could have been obtained with [i]free[/i], immediate, online machine translation.

I expected bottom-feeders to move to machine translation, thereby depriving lo-grade wannabe translators of any demand whatsoever. My assumption was that anyone thirsty and unwilling to spend money on any drinkable liquid would resort to the nearest river, pond, or faucet.

It took me years to figure out why this failed to happen, the ultimate reason being the universal human motivator: BLAME!

If we learned to blame suicide bombers themselves alone, and never the organization they represented in their final act, we wouldn't have such incidents any more. If we were trained to think, [i]"Poor demented idiot! Took his own life and many others for no purpose whatsoever,"[/i] no organization would be interested in motivating their people into becoming explosive proxies.

Bottom feeders don't use free machine translation because it fails to provide them with a culprit to blame. They can't blame Google for having done a bad translation for free. However they can explain the bad quality in their deliverables as [i]"having unfortunately hired, in good faith, a native speaker whose credentials seemed impressive"[/i].

So I've chosen to state it [url= [url removed] ]loud and clear on my web site[/url], after providing a comparison: [i]"If automatic translation fulfills your needs, it is not worthwhile to pay cheap for a translation that is just as bad.[/i]

PEMT is like someone driving a tanker to a mineral water bottling plant, and saying, [i]"Hey, I've got 1,000 gallons here I pumped from [url= [url removed] ]Guanabara Bay, in Rio[/url]. I don't want to pay what you charge for your Precious Springs water. What's your rock-bottom price to get my water here as clean, healthy, and drinkable as yours, neatly bottled under your label?"[/i]

Of course, the best answer here is dumping that tanker's contents (back?) to the sewer, and selling them the legit Precious Springs water, aka redoing the translation from scratch at full rate.

Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects? | No

Parrot — Fri, 01 Jul 2016 10:42:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects?
Poster: Parrot
Post title: No

And I don't accept them. Not from having done so before, but I used to work in-house where they'd substitute me every summer with an "assistant" program. The mess wasn't easy to clean up.

Then the boss told me, use the program. I invested more time typing and correcting than I would've spent producing something more aceptable. From a management point of view, it simply wasn't what they were paying for.

Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects? | Definitely no!

Katrin Bosse (X) — Fri, 01 Jul 2016 10:25:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects?
Poster: Katrin Bosse (X)
Post title: Definitely no!

Last year, I had been asked to "proofread" a translation, huge volume, very short deadline, to which I agreed but the outsourcer "forgot" to tell me that it was a machine translation! When I realised what a cuckoo's egg had been placed in my nest, I returned the job straight away and blacklisted the agency.

Since four years now, I only do proofreading for very select clients and colleagues and take on only a handful of offers altogether. I hate proofreading in general, it's always trouble and too much of it for too little money.

But there are positive experiences as well:
Just lately, I got the offer to edit a machine translation for a patent application and I could convince the outsourcer (direct client) that it would be to both our advantage if I just treated this as a normal translation from scratch. He agreed. And accepted my usual rate. A typical win-win situation in my opinion! :-)

Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects? | No

EvaVer (X) — Fri, 01 Jul 2016 10:20:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects?
Poster: EvaVer (X)
Post title: No

It's bad enough to deal with agency TMs that come from human idiots.

Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects? | In the yesteryears

Thayenga — Fri, 01 Jul 2016 09:52:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects?
Poster: Thayenga
Post title: In the yesteryears

[quote]Michael Harris wrote:

[quote]Thayenga wrote:

[quote]Ana Vozone wrote:

I delete all (usually potential, I wonder why?) job offers involving machine translation...
[/quote]

Why cut off the branch one's sitting on? [/quote]

you actually accepted one of these jobs? If you have not then it is difficult to understand why, and believe me the stuff that I was offered to review and I noticed that it was an MT was seriously just a load of rubbish - and I threw it back and told them not to do that to me again! [/quote]

I did accept this type of work a long time ago when I started my freelancing career. :(

Like you, I found this type of work highly unproductive, having to basically translate everything from scratch. Back then I didn't quite realize what this MT was about to do to our profession. But it didn't take long to get fed up with this "junk"-work and see the consequences it had on the translation industry, so I refused PEMT after a very short period, and looked for real work. This is why I've been deleting any such offers right away for several years now. In short: been there, didn't like it, never again. ;)

Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects? | No but yes but no

The Shredder — Fri, 01 Jul 2016 09:31:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects?
Poster: The Shredder
Post title: No but yes but no

Why would anyone collude in an activity that undermines their very profession?

Oh, to feed their families. Fair enough, then.

I, however, would never contemplate it. I'm an artist, darling.

Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects? | Have

Michael Harris — Fri, 01 Jul 2016 09:30:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects?
Poster: Michael Harris
Post title: Have

[quote]Thayenga wrote:

[quote]Ana Vozone wrote:

I delete all (usually potential, I wonder why?) job offers involving machine translation...
[/quote]

Why cut off the branch one's sitting on? [/quote]

you actually accepted one of these jobs? If you have not then it is difficult to understand why, and believe me the stuff that I was offered to review and I noticed that it was an MT was seriously just a load of rubbish - and I threw it back and told them not to do that to me again!

Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects? | Other

Michael Harris — Fri, 01 Jul 2016 09:27:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects?
Poster: Michael Harris
Post title: Other

If they are in the quality that I have been requested to do in the recent past (and refused) then I would say no.
It is just a cheap way of exploiting us because you ar eproofread a load of C**P and getting the payment of a review, takes almost twice as long as if you were translating it in the firtsplace, then the subsequent reviewer must make sure that the inital review was done properly and the only winner there is the Agency getting the rubbish done in the first place.

I am only referring to technical texts here, I am not sure what the world looks like elsewhere.

Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects? | No

Thayenga — Fri, 01 Jul 2016 09:16:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects?
Poster: Thayenga
Post title: No

[quote]Ana Vozone wrote:

I delete all (usually potential, I wonder why?) job offers involving machine translation...
[/quote]

Why cut off the branch one's sitting on?

Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects? | Irrelevant

DZiW (X) — Fri, 01 Jul 2016 09:09:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects?
Poster: DZiW (X)
Post title: Irrelevant

Considering that Translation is the communication of the meaning of a source-language text by means of an equivalent target-language text, there can be no translation from MT, which is but no language.

Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects? | No!

Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida — Fri, 01 Jul 2016 08:52:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects?
Poster: Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Post title: No!

Wise? I do some proofreading and checking, mainly for two agencies and for the same translators on a regular basis. Poor quality causes me to reject most of the projects I’m offered, some are without doubt machine translation post-editing projects…

Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects? | Worse than toxic waste

Ana Vozone — Fri, 01 Jul 2016 08:51:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects?
Poster: Ana Vozone
Post title: Worse than toxic waste

I delete all (usually potential, I wonder why?) job offers involving machine translation...

Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects? | Seconded

Yasutomo Kanazawa — Fri, 01 Jul 2016 08:32:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects?
Poster: Yasutomo Kanazawa
Post title: Seconded

[quote]Elodie Bonnafous wrote:

I have no precise opinion about this question, but I never accept such "projects".
The fact that the very question has been asked shows that I am probably not the only one to do so. [/quote]

But some people must learn the hard way that how troublesome it is to edit a machine translation post-editing projects at 0.02 or 0.03 cents per word.

Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects? | No opinion but..

Elodie Bonnafous — Fri, 01 Jul 2016 08:21:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects?
Poster: Elodie Bonnafous
Post title: No opinion but..

I have no precise opinion about this question, but I never accept such "projects".
The fact that the very question has been asked shows that I am probably not the only one to do so.

Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects?

ProZ.com Staff — Fri, 01 Jul 2016 08:10:02 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects?
Poster: ProZ.com Staff

This forum topic is for the discussion of the poll question "Do you think it is wise for translators to accept machine translation post-editing projects?".

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