ProZ.com Translation Forums

Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more) | Feature bloat

PhilippID — Fri, 01 Dec 2017 16:26:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com: Translator Coop
Topic: Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more)
Poster: PhilippID
Post title: Feature bloat

Overall, most of the "Plus" features just seem like typical feature bloat to me.

Having said that, the idea of being able to flagging bottom-feeder outsourcers for offering unreasonable rates, and being in a position to detect them from others' ratings, would actually save me a lot of time.

I don't mind your "free market of rates", this is all about transparency!

Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more) | Points of view...

Mirko Mainardi — Mon, 02 Jan 2017 01:57:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com: Translator Coop
Topic: Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more)
Poster: Mirko Mainardi
Post title: Points of view...

[quote]Edward Potter wrote:

It is unfair and misleading for a translator to accept a rate, then give the outsourcer a bad rating because that accepted rate is not acceptable.
[/quote]

Not really... Firstly, someone could accept a "less than optimal" rate for a number of reasons, like, for instance, because the client pays on delivery, then rate them 5 for payment practices and 2 or 3 for rates. How would that be "unfair and misleading"?

Secondly, if the BB were to be rethinked (as is happening now...) someone could even rate an outsourcer for a proposed rate they didn't accept. IMO that wouldn't be "unfair and misleading" either. Actually quite the opposite, and probably even more truthful and unbiased.

Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more) | Good job, Proz

Edward Potter — Sun, 01 Jan 2017 16:13:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com: Translator Coop
Topic: Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more)
Poster: Edward Potter
Post title: Good job, Proz

Proz is making a real effort to improve the site. They have had great success in doing so over the years.

The rate issue seems to be eternal. Proz takes the correct stance on this. They shouldn't even try to get into the messy business of determining what fair rates are. Correctly, they believe that if you have accepted a rate, then it is just that: you have accepted it. It is unfair and misleading for a translator to accept a rate, then give the outsourcer a bad rating because that accepted rate is not acceptable.

Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more) | @Tom

Samuel Murray — Thu, 29 Dec 2016 14:56:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com: Translator Coop
Topic: Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more)
Poster: Samuel Murray
Post title: @Tom

[quote]Tom in London wrote:
I still don't understand why (as in the example I posted earlier) my Kudoz/Browniz are showing as not having increased since 2015. [/quote]

You misinterpret your own screenshot. The Blue Board entries always reflect the translator's current KudoZ/BrowniZ score, and not the score that the translator had at the time that he had made each entry. Go look at the other entries that you've made, including the ones that you made years ago -- they'll all say "7819 KudoZ points".

Here are two entries that I made for one client:

A similar thing happens with forum posts. If you change your profile picture today, then all of your forum posts since the beginning of time will be updated with your most recent picture. It's odd, but there you go.

[Edited at 2016-12-29 14:58 GMT]

Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more) | Current Points

Angie Garbarino — Thu, 29 Dec 2016 13:48:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com: Translator Coop
Topic: Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more)
Poster: Angie Garbarino
Post title: Current Points

[quote]Tom in London wrote:

I still don't understand why (as in the example I posted earlier) my Kudoz/Browniz are showing as not having increased since 2015.[/quote]

Those are your current points, this is like the photo, you see your photo, points and so on updated at the present day, not that your entry in 2015 reflects your points in 2015.

I hope I was clear...

Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more) | Why

Tom in London — Thu, 29 Dec 2016 13:31:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com: Translator Coop
Topic: Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more)
Poster: Tom in London
Post title: Why

I still don't understand why (as in the example I posted earlier) my Kudoz/Browniz are showing as not having increased since 2015.

Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more) | Onboarding

Henry Dotterer — Tue, 27 Dec 2016 20:10:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com: Translator Coop
Topic: Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more)
Poster: Henry Dotterer
Post title: Onboarding

Hi folks,

Most LSPs distinguish between freelancers that have been "approved", and those who have been put into their databases as candidates, but are not yet fully "in". Usually there are several steps involved in going from the un-approved to the approved status, including verifying some data, having an NDA signed, confirming that a person can be paid, possibly granting access to an online system, and so on. Some companies refer to this as "onboarding".

What would be a better word? It is a more comprehensive concept than orientation or even vetting. It is doing everything necessary so that a freelancer is available to project managers for work assignments.

Henry

Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more) | Indeed...

Mirko Mainardi — Tue, 27 Dec 2016 19:59:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com: Translator Coop
Topic: Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more)
Poster: Mirko Mainardi
Post title: Indeed...

[quote]Tom in London wrote:

Whatever it is, it has nothing to do with the way in which I build a working relationship with my clients. [/quote]

Guess it goes to show the sad state a good part of the industry is in...
There definitely are "clients" that treat you as an employee and expect you to adapt and comply with all of their "documentation/contracting processes" (and contents)...

Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more) | Whatever it is

Tom in London — Tue, 27 Dec 2016 19:49:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com: Translator Coop
Topic: Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more)
Poster: Tom in London
Post title: Whatever it is

[quote]Mirko Mainardi wrote:

You can easily find a definition, such as "The action or process of integrating a new employee into an organization or familiarizing a new customer or client with one's products or services" - [url removed]

Although this is probably more interesting: [url removed]
It says, among other things: "In the old days, the word orientation did this job just fine. But today we don't just want new employees to get their bearings and be able to find their way around the building (ideas implied in the literal meanings of orient), but to be on board—to be ready and able to move onward with the company wherever it may be headed."
[/quote]

Whatever it is, it has nothing to do with the way in which I build a working relationship with my clients. And whilst I know many Americans think there is a verb "to orient", in my world it's "to orientate". The Orient is the Far East.

[Edited at 2016-12-27 19:51 GMT]

Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more) | [OT] - Onboarding

Mirko Mainardi — Tue, 27 Dec 2016 19:43:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com: Translator Coop
Topic: Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more)
Poster: Mirko Mainardi
Post title: [OT] - Onboarding

You can easily find a definition, such as "The action or process of integrating a new employee into an organization or familiarizing a new customer or client with one's products or services" - [url removed]

Although this is probably more interesting: [url removed]
It says, among other things: "In the old days, the word orientation did this job just fine. But today we don't just want new employees to get their bearings and be able to find their way around the building (ideas implied in the literal meanings of orient), but to be on board—to be ready and able to move onward with the company wherever it may be headed."

Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more) | Terrible

Tom in London — Tue, 27 Dec 2016 19:33:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com: Translator Coop
Topic: Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more)
Poster: Tom in London
Post title: Terrible

[quote]James Greenfield wrote:

@ Tom

I think on-boarding is meant to mean the process for registering with an agency. It does sound odd though outside the context of air travel. Registration would surely be better.

[Edited at 2016-12-27 17:14 GMT] [/quote]

Thanks James. I had no idea that it meant "registration". And anyway, in air travel, it's "boarding", not "on-boarding". None of my clients would have the slightest idea what "on-boarding" means. After some research I have discovered that there is in fact a term "onboarding" (not hyphenated), but it does not mean registration. It describes the process of welcoming new employees and giving them initial training and has nothing to do with the relationship between a freelancer and their clients. It appears to be American English.

[Edited at 2016-12-27 19:41 GMT]

Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more) | On-boarding

James Greenfield — Tue, 27 Dec 2016 17:09:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com: Translator Coop
Topic: Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more)
Poster: James Greenfield
Post title: On-boarding

@ Tom

I think on-boarding is meant to mean the process for registering with an agency. It does sound odd though outside the context of air travel. Registration would surely be better.

[Edited at 2016-12-27 17:14 GMT]

Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more) | Yes and no

Tom in London — Mon, 26 Dec 2016 16:22:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com: Translator Coop
Topic: Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more)
Poster: Tom in London
Post title: Yes and no

[quote]Robert Forstag wrote:

But the entry in your new rating and sub-ratings consists of nothing but "5s", which reflect no dissatisfaction 'tall....

[/quote]

In that particular entry, yes; but not in the others I changed.

Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more) | @Tom

Robert Forstag — Mon, 26 Dec 2016 15:32:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com: Translator Coop
Topic: Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more)
Poster: Robert Forstag
Post title: @Tom

But the entry in your new rating and sub-ratings consists of nothing but "5s", which reflect no dissatisfaction 'tall....

In agreement with your linguistic quibbles. A site for language professionals can surely be expected to pay more heed to such matters. These kinds of irritating problems show up all over the place here, and should be cleaned up.

Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more) | We need to have earlier entries deleted when we update them using the new system

Tom in London — Mon, 26 Dec 2016 10:14:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com: Translator Coop
Topic: Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more)
Poster: Tom in London
Post title: We need to have earlier entries deleted when we update them using the new system

Linguistic quibbles first. Some of the wording is unclear and breaks the rules of correct English, e.g.:

1. I have no idea what "on-boarding" means, and I doubt that my clients would understand it either.
2. "This outsourcer adheres to agreed upon terms" is not good English. "This outsourcer complies with previously agreed terms" might be better. Or some other option.
3. When making a new BB entry I am presented with the following text: "Please select the country that the outsourcer's main office is located". I'm sorry, but that means nothing in English. Corrected version: "Please select the country in which the outsourcer's main office is located".

My main comment:

As requested I have updated a few of my previous BB entries, but in each case my previous entry of several years ago has not been deleted. For instance: several years ago I liked one particular outsourcer but in more recent years I just got tired of their greatly deteriorated payment practices and gave up on them. My new BB entry reflects this but my older, favourable entry is still visible, which is surely very confusing. The same applies to the other BB entries I updated today. Here's one example:

BY THE WAY - in this BB entry I notice that my Kudoz/Browniz are showing as not having increased since 2015. That's wrong.

[Edited at 2016-12-26 13:12 GMT]

Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more) | This is one GREAT step forward

José Henrique Lamensdorf — Sun, 25 Dec 2016 15:36:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com: Translator Coop
Topic: Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more)
Poster: José Henrique Lamensdorf
Post title: This is one GREAT step forward

I have been advocating this shift for years, so I am glad that Proz has finally decided to move from the all-subjective LWA.

My posts on this matter were to defend the use of [b]objective[/b] - hence factual, easy to prove - inputs from translators on outsourcers. So here are my comments on the criteria as stated so far.

[quote]Henry Dotterer wrote:

In response to member requests, it is now possible for those making Blue Board entries to rate outsourcers, on a scale from 1 to 5, in specific areas. The areas are:

- This outsourcer is easy/enjoyable to work with.[/quote]

Who cares? This is supposed to be WORK! It is not expected to be easy or enjoyable.
I think it would be more relevant for WORK, if stated as:
[b]This client communicates clearly and effectively their needs and requirements.[/b]
We know that many don't, and this may cause all kinds of trouble that leads a translator to think twice before working for them again.

[quote]Henry Dotterer wrote:
- This outsourcer considers quality in the way they manage projects.[/quote]
According to the rather ancient, however definitely present, Total Quality concepts, it is up to the end-client to set the quality level, and the outsourcer is in charge of ensuring it is delivered.
I think it would make more sense to state:
[b]This client makes reasonable and thoughtful demands.[/b]
Low graders would be those that demand excessive volume coupled with an abusively short turnaround, often associated with low rates and absurdly extended payment terms.

[quote]Henry Dotterer wrote:
- This outsourcer has straightforward on-boarding and documentation/contracting processes.[/quote]
This is a highly subjective thing to state. There is a popular translators management system (named P..net) that can vary sharply from one to another outsourcer in terms of setting up the bureaucracy it involves. Some outsourcers adopt a nice and sensible NDA, however they require having received it signed via snail-mail before any assignment.
So I'd prefer rating this as:
[b]This outsourcer's administrative procedures are reasonable and adequate.[/b]

[quote]Henry Dotterer wrote:
- This outsourcer adheres to agreed upon terms.[/quote]
This is okay, however possibly subject to mincing words.
I'd suggest:
[b]This outsourcer adheres to everything that was mutually agreed.[/b]
Some outsourcers (I won't name names here) at times overlook, for instance, the translator's "best rate" - as emphatically requested - being strictly for COD payment, and later claim that "it is our firm policy to never pay anything before 60 days after month-end".

[quote]Henry Dotterer wrote:
- This outsourcer has reasonable payment terms.[/quote]
This is overwhelmingly subjective.
Taking it strictly, "payment term" being the length of time between the delivery of services and the actual payment, what would be reasonable?
For a translator in Switzerland, where interest rates may be negative, it's merely a matter of cash flow.
In the Euro zone, the standard seems to be 30 days, though two peninsulas (Iberia and Italia) typically tend to extent it far beyond that.
In the USA, the APR (yes, annual) is about 15%. So in these major markets the financial cost a translator should add is marginal.
Yet when the translator is in Brazil, Argentina, and a list of other countries where MONTHLY interest rates are higher than than the US-APR (annual!), it makes a lot of difference.
Hence what's reasonable for one in this criteria may be irrational for another.

Now if "payment terms" is expected to encompass RATES, it becomes meaningless. Imagine translators working on the same language pair, located in New York, Delhi, Dusseldorf, Buenos Aires, Sydney, and Rio de Janeiro. There is no one-size-fits-all to this.

My point is that the outsourcer should HAVE nothing of the sort. One of their reasons to exist is to scout the entire global market on behalf of the end-client, in order to be able to advise on the best quality-price-time option for each request they receive, based on the input they have secured - either actively or passively - worldwide.
This would also cover abusive discount demands on fuzzy matches, unsound requirements on software (e.g. a specific CAT tool when none is useful or viable), on top of the above.
So I'd cover this point with:
[b]This outsourcer is reasonable to negotiate with, aiming at a sustainable business relationship.[/b]

My 2¢.

Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more) | Possible for "normal" members

Andrea Halbritter — Sun, 25 Dec 2016 13:01:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com: Translator Coop
Topic: Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more)
Poster: Andrea Halbritter
Post title: Possible for "normal" members

Do I understand it right that as a "normal" member I am not able to give those detailled rankings?

Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more) | No, first revamp the community rates feature

Samuel Murray — Sun, 25 Dec 2016 10:02:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com: Translator Coop
Topic: Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more)
Poster: Samuel Murray
Post title: No, first revamp the community rates feature

[quote]Mirko Mainardi wrote:
However, ProZ does have a list of "community rates" per language pair (whether you find them reliable/acceptable or not...), so why not use it to make this an objective parameter and create at least a basic distinction between clients/agencies that offer abysmal/low rates (below "standard community rates") and those who offer "so-so"/average/good rates? [/quote]

[quote]Robert Forstag wrote:
A further refinement of this idea could be a statement such as:
"On a scale of 1 to 5, where do this agency's rates fall in terms of the community rates for your language pair?"
The term "community rates" could be hyperlinked to the appropriate ProZ.com page supplying said information. [/quote]

Although I can see the point in linking the rates comment to a universal standard (and by "universal standard" I don't imply rate acceptability but simply data reliability), I would have some concerns/objections in that regard.

1. The community rates are always going to be much higher than the usual rates in some markets, and always lower than the usual rates in other markets. The current implementation of "community rates" assumes that any given translator charges the same rate to all clients for all text types in all subject fields and, importantly, in all markets. But it would be unfair to clients from low-rate markets to be evaluated against these artificially high rates standard (from their point of view), and it would give an overly favourable opinion about clients from typically high-rate markets.

In a certain market, 14c per word might be on the low end, 16c a word about average, and 18c per word on the high end. If the community rate is 10c per word, then there would be no way to distinguish the low-paying client (that pays 40% more than the community rate) from the average paying client (who pays a mere 15% more than the low-paying client). In another market, 4c per word may be on the low end, 5c per word about average, and 6-7c per word on the high end. If the community rate is 10c per word, then even a very high paying client would look bad, and would actually look not much better than a very low paying client.

2. One reason why it may be considered acceptable to post to the Blue Board despite NDAs is the fact that most statements are very general. If a rates comment is pegged to a known standard, however, then translators who provide this sort of information would actually be giving more specific information about their relationship with the client that they may realise.

3. Rates payed by agencies tend to depend [at least in part] on the specifics of each project. Aspects like "considering quality in the way they manage projects", "having straightforward on-boarding and documentation/contracting processes", "adhering to agreed upon terms" and "having reasonable payment terms" do not. These latter things will tend to be true for an agency regardless of language combination, subject field, end-client, or even specific project. So while those things may be useful information for all translators, a rates comment would only be useful if the Blue Board user happens to be offered a project with similar specifications than that which the evaluator got.

4. For a similar reason, I would probably never rate an agency in this regard, because it might unintentionally send the wrong message to colleagues. Here's what I mean: suppose I get 12c per word from an agency, and I give them a 4/5 rating for "reasonable rates". If a couple of colleagues get 5c per word from them (due to the fact that they work on other projects than I do), it would send the message that I consider 5c per word to be worth a 4/5 rating (because translators do sometimes talk to each other).

Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more) | @Eric

Samuel Murray — Sun, 25 Dec 2016 09:31:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com: Translator Coop
Topic: Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more)
Poster: Samuel Murray
Post title: @Eric

[quote]Erik Freitag wrote:
[quote]Henry Dotterer wrote:
- This outsourcer has reasonable payment terms.*
* This category is provided for rating on characteristics like time until payment is made, whether or not payment fees are taken out in a way that was not agreed in advance, etc. [/quote]
I believe that it should be assumed that payment terms have been agreed in advance. [/quote]

That is true, but some things are often taken for granted, i.e. they are not discussed nor specifically agreed to, because both parties assume that there is a "standard" way of doing things that need not be discussed in detail. And when differences of opinion occur [afterwards], the agency's idea of what "standard practice" is can be unreasonable in the eyes of the translator.

So I think this option is distinct from "This outsourcer adheres to agreed upon terms." Perhaps we can think about having the wording changed to "This outsourcer has reasonable payment practices".

Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more) | Faulty logic

Erik Freitag — Sat, 24 Dec 2016 21:27:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com: Translator Coop
Topic: Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more)
Poster: Erik Freitag
Post title: Faulty logic

Henry,

I've said that in the other thread as well, but here goes. In my opinion, the explanatory text is a bit illogical here:

[quote]Henry Dotterer wrote:

- This outsourcer has reasonable payment terms.*

* This category is provided for rating on characteristics like time until payment is made, whether or not payment fees are taken out in a way that was not agreed in advance, etc. This field is not intended to be used to rate outsourcers on payment amounts. There is no category for that, since it is assumed that payment amount will have been previously agreed to, to the satisfaction of both parties.[/quote] (my emphasis)

I believe that it should be assumed that payment terms have been agreed in advance. Taking out payment fees in a way that was not agreed in advance should instead be reflected by bad marks in the category "This outsourcer adheres to agreed upon terms."

My 2 cents.

Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more) | This would work just fine.

Robert Forstag — Sat, 24 Dec 2016 17:31:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com: Translator Coop
Topic: Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more)
Poster: Robert Forstag
Post title: This would work just fine.

[quote]Mirko Mainardi wrote:

[quote]Robert Forstag wrote:

[quote]Samuel Murray wrote:

[quote]Robert Forstag wrote:
This agency offers reasonable rates in my language pair...[/quote]

So, do reasonable rates get 3 out of 5 or 5 out of 5. If 5, what about excellent rates, then? [/quote]

The 1-5 scale would in this case (as in the other sub-categories Henry proposes, if I understand correctly) measure the extent to which one agrees with the proposition in question.

So if I thought an agency's rates were fair and its fee-negotiation practices above board (these variables are in my view inseparable), I would probably give a 4. Some degree of dissatisfaction along these lines might lead me to give a rating of 3 or 2. If I thought, on the other hand, that the agency was truly exceptional in one or both of these facets, I would give a "5". [/quote]

However, "reasonable" or "competitive" are quite subjective, IMO... also seeing how there evidently are people willing to work at rates as low as $.02/.03 per word, so a "reasonable" from one of them will be quite different from the "reasonable" of someone who's used to charge ten times that figure...

However, ProZ does have a list of "community rates" per language pair (whether you find them reliable/acceptable or not...), so why not use it to make this an objective parameter and create at least a basic distinction between clients/agencies that offer abysmal/low rates (below "standard community rates") and those who offer "so-so"/average/good rates? [/quote]

A further refinement of this idea could be a statement such as:

On a scale of 1 to 5, where do this agency's rates fall in terms of the community rates for your language pair?

The term "community rates" could be hyperlinked to the appropriate proz.com page supplying said information.

[Edited at 2016-12-24 18:04 GMT]

Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more) | Tight deadlines are not the problem.

Robert Forstag — Sat, 24 Dec 2016 17:29:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com: Translator Coop
Topic: Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more)
Poster: Robert Forstag
Post title: Tight deadlines are not the problem.

[quote]memond wrote:

If something could be added for the deadlines, this will be good also. More and more the deadlines imposed by the agencies are ridiculous and start to be a real threat to quality in the translation industry. Seriously, real emergencies occur in hospitals, or when a bomb explodes somewhere, but not in a translation agency, this is ridiculous. For me, extremely short deadlines are nothing more than the reflect of bad management and the incompetence of some PMs who are obviously not real professional and are unable to:
1- Estimate correctly the exact time frame for a translation project (translation and revision included).
2- Negociate with the client the appropriate deadline (which is the primary task of a PM)
3- Have any consideration toward translators (expecting translators to work for 12-16 hours in a row, or spend the night awake because '...it is a very strict deadline...' it is amazingly irrespective. It also shows that the PM has no respect for the quality of the product and the client, you cannot do a good job in a rush and by turning the corners round).
[/quote]

I have no problem with tight deadlines per se, and I would hasten to point out that these often are dictated in response to real client needs rather than as an arbitrary imposition on the part of the agency.

The problem arises when either the stipulated deadline is simply impossible to meet, or when there is no offer of appropriate consideration to compensate for the added inconvenience involved in handling such projects.

[Edited at 2016-12-25 18:31 GMT]

Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more) | Subjective

Mirko Mainardi — Sat, 24 Dec 2016 17:24:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com: Translator Coop
Topic: Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more)
Poster: Mirko Mainardi
Post title: Subjective

[quote]Robert Forstag wrote:

[quote]Samuel Murray wrote:

[quote]Robert Forstag wrote:
This agency offers reasonable rates in my language pair...[/quote]

So, do reasonable rates get 3 out of 5 or 5 out of 5. If 5, what about excellent rates, then? [/quote]

The 1-5 scale would in this case (as in the other sub-categories Henry proposes, if I understand correctly) measure the extent to which one agrees with the proposition in question.

So if I thought an agency's rates were fair and its fee-negotiation practices above board (these variables are in my view inseparable), I would probably give a 4. Some degree of dissatisfaction along these lines might lead me to give a rating of 3 or 2. If I thought, on the other hand, that the agency was truly exceptional in one or both of these facets, I would give a "5". [/quote]

However, "reasonable" or "competitive" are quite subjective, IMO... also seeing how there evidently are people willing to work at rates as low as $.02/.03 per word, so a "reasonable" from one of them will be quite different from the "reasonable" of someone who's used to charge ten times that figure...

However, ProZ does have a list of "community rates" per language pair (whether you find them reliable/acceptable or not...), so why not use it to make this an objective parameter and create at least a basic distinction between clients/agencies that offer abysmal/low rates (below "standard community rates") and those who offer "so-so"/average/good rates?

Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more) | Something like that.

Robert Forstag — Sat, 24 Dec 2016 17:02:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com: Translator Coop
Topic: Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more)
Poster: Robert Forstag
Post title: Something like that.

[quote]Samuel Murray wrote:

[quote]Robert Forstag wrote:
This agency offers reasonable rates in my language pair...[/quote]

So, do reasonable rates get 3 out of 5 or 5 out of 5. If 5, what about excellent rates, then? [/quote]

The 1-5 scale would in this case (as in the other sub-categories Henry proposes, if I understand correctly) measure the extent to which one agrees with the proposition in question.

So if I thought an agency's rates were fair and its fee-negotiation practices above board (these variables are in my view inseparable), I would probably give a 4. Some degree of dissatisfaction along these lines might lead me to give a rating of 3 or 2. If I thought, on the other hand, that the agency was truly exceptional in one or both of these facets, I would give a "5".

Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more) | Excellent rates versus reasonable rates

Samuel Murray — Sat, 24 Dec 2016 16:45:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com: Translator Coop
Topic: Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more)
Poster: Samuel Murray
Post title: Excellent rates versus reasonable rates

[quote]Robert Forstag wrote:
This agency offers reasonable rates in my language pair...[/quote]

So, do reasonable rates get 3 out of 5 or 5 out of 5. If 5, what about excellent rates, then?

Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more) | Agree with Bernhard

Robert Forstag — Sat, 24 Dec 2016 15:58:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com: Translator Coop
Topic: Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more)
Poster: Robert Forstag
Post title: Agree with Bernhard

Bernhard speaks to a reality all too familiar to many freelancers: In a highly competitive buyers' market, many of us increasingly find ourselves accepting rates that we are less than deliriously happy with.

I certainly do not expect this site to set minimum acceptable rates for either posted jobs or agencies in general. But I see nothing violating proz.com's longstanding devotion to free-market dynamics in drawing special attention to Outsourcers who offer what most experienced translators in a given language pair would consider "reasonable rates."

Inclusion of a statement along the following lines could work:

This agency offers reasonable rates in my language pair, and its manner of negotiating project fees is transparent and expeditious.

[Edited at 2016-12-24 16:51 GMT]

Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more) | From my perspective

Bernhard Sulzer — Fri, 23 Dec 2016 23:26:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com: Translator Coop
Topic: Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more)
Poster: Bernhard Sulzer
Post title: From my perspective

[quote]Henry Dotterer wrote:

[quote]Bernhard Sulzer wrote:

Because a majority of posters and many direct contacts via the directory, despite the fact that their BB record is a solid 5 or 4.9, demand very low rates. An example is $0.04/source word in my language combination (German-English).[/quote]
As you know, while we do everything we can to give people access to education and a means of boosting their incomes, ProZ.com does not dictate rates, choosing to leave things to you all as members. We don't have any plans to make a major change from that stance in connection with the Plus offering.

In the case of this particular feature, it does work, even if rates are not handled (probably because of the Blue Board requirement.) [/quote]

Just one more thought and I'm not going to go on with this. But please see it from my perspective. Confronted with a daily dose of low rate projects with specific low rate ranges or suggested (= expected) low fees on many job boards, not just this one, and many emails from companies obviously looking for the "best" rates, leaving the rates and demanding of rates all up to the participants, including those agencies that go for bottom rates (many of them featured as Certified Proz), has had a profound effect (IMO) on the prices here. I am not hopeful with regard to securing reasonable projects in the future through such platforms.

Since we have a bidding system, it's very likely that "be cheaper" is IMO the way to get the project. That's just how people compete I would just get rid of the posters' option to propose rates. Maybe that will alleviate the situation a bit. But asking for the "best rate" is a dead giveaway anyway. It seems to work for many outsourcers because they continue to post the same "offers" and, yes, unfortunately, many translators are willingly participating in this system. Education is good but it seems to be losing out when things are basically already dictated by certain agencies and translators.

Now I can't blame Proz.com directly for that because it's the posters and willing translators who engage in such business practices but they are able to do it through this platform (and there are other platforms that work just like it).

But I have long given up competing like that and was hoping that Proz.com would maybe take the initiative to offer a platform section or additional platform that caters to different people. Or let's just talk about it.

Why have I kept talking about this over the years? I feel somewhat affected by what is going on with regard to cheap competition. It doesn't make my life easier.

So while I applaud your initiatives for new features that can help, I am not sure certain things can be changed without changing the whole system.

I'll leave it at that. Thank you for listening Henry.

[Edited at 2016-12-24 01:50 GMT]

Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more) | Term definitions

Russell Jones — Fri, 23 Dec 2016 21:05:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com: Translator Coop
Topic: Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more)
Poster: Russell Jones
Post title: Term definitions

I would welcome a more detailed explanation of "on-boarding and documentation/contracting processes" as I am not at all clear what is meant. "On-boarding" is a new one on me.

Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more) | Definitely

memond — Fri, 23 Dec 2016 20:38:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com: Translator Coop
Topic: Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more)
Poster: memond
Post title: Definitely

[quote]Henry Dotterer wrote:

Thanks, memond. We considered that allowing enough time for a job could fall under "considers quality in the way they manage projects." Can you see that? Maybe the wording should be adjusted. [/quote]

Definitely, this could be integrated into this section. If you allow me, maybe in the text that will explain this section, I would specify the word 'deadlines' as being an element to evaluate good project management or something like that.

Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more) | Thanks, memond. Could that fall under "considers quality"?

Henry Dotterer — Fri, 23 Dec 2016 19:57:00 +0000

Forum: ProZ.com: Translator Coop
Topic: Plus features: Announcing Blue Board “category ratings” (and more)
Poster: Henry Dotterer
Post title: Thanks, memond. Could that fall under "considers quality"?

[quote]memond wrote:

If something could be added for the deadlines, this will be good also. More and more the deadlines imposed by the agencies are ridiculous and start to be a real threat to quality in the translation industry. Seriously, real emergencies occur in hospitals, or when a bomb explodes somewhere, but not in a translation agency, this is ridiculous. For me, extremely short deadlines are nothing more than the reflect of bad management and the incompetence of some PMs who are obviously not real professional and are unable to:
1- Estimate correctly the exact time frame for a translation project (translation and revision included).
2- Negociate with the client the appropriate deadline (which is the primary task of a PM)
3- Have any consideration toward translators (expecting translators to work for 12-16 hours in a row, or spend the night awake because '...it is a very strict deadline...' it is amazingly irrespective. It also shows that the PM has no respect for the quality of the product and the client, you cannot do a good job in a rush and by turning the corners round). [/quote]
Thanks, memond. We considered that allowing enough time for a job could fall under "considers quality in the way they manage projects." Can you see that? Maybe the wording should be adjusted.