ProZ.com Translation Forums

Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair? | Sorry, wrong preposition

José Henrique Lamensdorf — Wed, 22 Nov 2017 10:21:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair?
Poster: José Henrique Lamensdorf
Post title: Sorry, wrong preposition

[quote]Mario Chavez wrote:

[quote]José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:

[quote]Mario Chavez wrote:
The question reminds me the braindead U.S. government form questions to immigrants: Are you a communist? Have you ever been associated with the Nazi party? Have you ever helped another person obtain immigration benefits illegally? And so on.[/quote]

Considering them braindead shows your biased expectations. You expect Americans to be obstinate bureaucrats from some other experiences you might have had with them.

The point in these questions is that their law enforcement system is quite effective. If any of the "NOs" an applicant answers to these questions is later proven to be a lie, this will add "perjury" (something they don't take lightly) to that person's list of misdemeanors. While it might be difficult to throw out someone who once was a communist, Nazi, whatever, it is a lot easier to lock up someone who committed perjury.
[/quote]

You're assuming that I'm writing the above as someone who looks at Americans from the outside, remaining outside of that country. As it happens, I am American and I live in the Upper Midwest. I just like to point out the obvious sometimes (U.S. government forms) and it's my opinion born from observation. Suggesting that I have “biased expectations” is a strongly worded statement, don't you think?

Perhaps you can share how you came up with the information that individuals committing perjury on an immigration form end up in jail. I'm asking because it's news to me. [/quote]

You are correct, I should have used "lock [b]out[/b]" instead of "lock [b]up[/b]" those liars.

[url= [url removed] ]This article[/url] is quite enlightening on the nature and effect of lies in official situations, either under oath or otherwise. The misdeed is not in telling them, but in these lies being used to thwart the purpose of the legal/judicial system. An explanation regarding US immigration may be found [url= [url removed] ]here[/url].

If a person who lied upon answering those 'braindead' questions is eventually caught in some related misconduct, their lie will be used to escalate the charges. That's the system.

Looking anything from the inside or outside merely involves shifting the point of reference, provided you have more than one. As your degree is from Argentina, it means that you have witnessed something 'different' in your life. That's different from the 'redneck' stereotype, who supposedly has never seen anything else in life.

Steering hard to get back on track to this thread you attempted to hijack, the "average" (value in translation) is a matter of stance, too. Now that translation is fully globalized, I am sure that the same client has different expectations from translators living in different countries, as well as those in the same country however working in different language pairs.

So the original question "do you think...?" could be rephrased into "do you deliberately strive to deliver better value...?"

Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair? | Yes

Muriel Vasconcellos (X) — Wed, 22 Nov 2017 09:49:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair?
Poster: Muriel Vasconcellos (X)
Post title: Yes

I assume that "value means translations that are useful to the client.

I taught translation for 17 years and have extensive experience correcting the tests of applicants for full-time translation positions. I also worked as a reviser/reviewer for a couple of decades. So I have seen a lot of work by translators in my language combinations, and based on what I have seen, many translators do not produce useful work.

Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair? | Government forms

Mario Chavez (X) — Wed, 22 Nov 2017 01:23:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair?
Poster: Mario Chavez (X)
Post title: Government forms

[quote]José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:

[quote]Mario Chavez wrote:
The question reminds me the braindead U.S. government form questions to immigrants: Are you a communist? Have you ever been associated with the Nazi party? Have you ever helped another person obtain immigration benefits illegally? And so on.[/quote]

Considering them braindead shows your biased expectations. You expect Americans to be obstinate bureaucrats from some other experiences you might have had with them.

The point in these questions is that their law enforcement system is quite effective. If any of the "NOs" an applicant answers to these questions is later proven to be a lie, this will add "perjury" (something they don't take lightly) to that person's list of misdemeanors. While it might be difficult to throw out someone who once was a communist, Nazi, whatever, it is a lot easier to lock up someone who committed perjury.
[/quote]

You're assuming that I'm writing the above as someone who looks at Americans from the outside, remaining outside of that country. As it happens, I am American and I live in the Upper Midwest. I just like to point out the obvious sometimes (U.S. government forms) and it's my opinion born from observation. Suggesting that I have “biased expectations” is a strongly worded statement, don't you think?

Perhaps you can share how you came up with the information that individuals committing perjury on an immigration form end up in jail. I'm asking because it's news to me.

Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair? | Not necessarily

Christine Andersen — Wed, 22 Nov 2017 00:15:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair?
Poster: Christine Andersen
Post title: Not necessarily

[quote]Elizabeth Tamblin wrote:

Over 50% believe they offer better value than average. That must mean some people are over-estimating themselves... ;) [/quote]

That is the danger of statistics!
The ones who don't think they are better than average might just not be answering the poll. There is no way to know whether the people who answer these polls are a representative sample. Quite possibly we are over-estimating ourselves, but you can never be sure!

Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair? | Simple arithmetics!

Mario Freitas — Tue, 21 Nov 2017 23:05:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair?
Poster: Mario Freitas
Post title: Simple arithmetics!

If 52% believe they are above average and 22% said "it depends" (which adds another 10% do the first group, at least), do you realize if they are all correct, they are all wrong? Because obiously, the exact "average" has to have 50% of the people below it and 50% above it. So at least 25% of the answerers are overestimating themselves, instead of underestimating, as suggested.

Ok, editing: Of course we should consider that most people in this forum are or may be above average indeed, since the "below averagers" likely do not have a ProZ account or participate in this type of forum. So the simple arithmetics may not be so simple... sorry.

[Edited at 2017-11-21 23:07 GMT]

Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair? | Client expectations

José Henrique Lamensdorf — Tue, 21 Nov 2017 20:55:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair?
Poster: José Henrique Lamensdorf
Post title: Client expectations

[quote]Mario Chavez wrote:

[quote]Elizabeth Tamblin wrote:

Over 50% believe they offer better value than average. That must mean some people are over-estimating themselves... ;) [/quote]

Or that some people are underestimating themselves.[/quote]

I guess that what makes a difference is delivering more value than the client expects.

And what do they expect? What are their expectations based on?

Most likely, on the service level they received from translators in the past or, if they are first-timers, on the service level other people told them about. Otherwise, they have no expectation whatsoever.

[quote]Mario Chavez wrote:
The question reminds me the braindead U.S. government form questions to immigrants: Are you a communist? Have you ever been associated with the Nazi party? Have you ever helped another person obtain immigration benefits illegally? And so on.[/quote]

Considering them braindead shows your biased expectations. You expect Americans to be obstinate bureaucrats from some other experiences you might have had with them.

The point in these questions is that their law enforcement system is quite effective. If any of the "NOs" an applicant answers to these questions is later proven to be a lie, this will add "perjury" (something they don't take lightly) to that person's list of misdemeanors. While it might be difficult to throw out someone who once was a communist, Nazi, whatever, it is a lot easier to lock up someone who committed perjury

[quote]Mario Chavez wrote:
As others have said, it is difficult to measure what is average in our profession. It's a slippery slope of subjectivity. [/quote]

I agree with you that the question gets vague upon mentioning "average", when there is none. However it would take more text to explain "customer expectations" in the space Proz allots for poll questions.

The truth is that the massive worldwide overabundance of amateur bilinguals offering translation services for any amount of money, payable whenever the client feels they have surplus money around, is precisely what led many supposedly professional translation agency project managers to believe that anything can get professionally translated, from any language into any other, for about 1-3 US cents per word. That's their "expectation", and they also expect that hammering this expectation with enough vigor will make it prevail. Otherwise, they wouldn't base their selling price on these costs.

No wonder that most translators demanding a two-digit US cents figure per word rate offer better value than "average"... since the average is heavily biased by the overwhelming frequency of the lower values.

Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair? | More ways to skin a cat

Mario Chavez (X) — Tue, 21 Nov 2017 20:22:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair?
Poster: Mario Chavez (X)
Post title: More ways to skin a cat

[quote]Elizabeth Tamblin wrote:

Over 50% believe they offer better value than average. That must mean some people are over-estimating themselves... ;) [/quote]

Or that some people are underestimating themselves.

The question reminds me the braindead U.S. government form questions to immigrants: Are you a communist? Have you ever been associated with the Nazi party? Have you ever helped another person obtain immigration benefits illegally? And so on.

As others have said, it is difficult to measure what is average in our profession. It's a slippery slope of subjectivity.

Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair? | I answered Yes

Yetta Jensen Bogarde — Tue, 21 Nov 2017 19:37:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair?
Poster: Yetta Jensen Bogarde
Post title: I answered Yes

I do quite a bit of editing, and my answer is mainly based on what I see from translators with Master's degrees in translation.
It is not always that impressive, too much word-for-word translation, and not expressing themselves very well in their own mother tongue.
Of course, I don't know the other translators' prices, but with their university degrees, I am pretty sure they don't charge less than I do.

Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair? | Exactly

Mario Freitas — Tue, 21 Nov 2017 19:15:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair?
Poster: Mario Freitas
Post title: Exactly

[quote]Elizabeth Tamblin wrote:

Over 50% believe they offer better value than average. That must mean some people are over-estimating themselves... ;) [/quote]

Then, when other people complain that we are arrogant professionals, we deny it!

Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair? | Interesting result

Elizabeth Tamblin (X) — Tue, 21 Nov 2017 18:27:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair?
Poster: Elizabeth Tamblin (X)
Post title: Interesting result

Over 50% believe they offer better value than average. That must mean some people are over-estimating themselves... ;)

Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair? | I certainly try!

Christine Andersen — Tue, 21 Nov 2017 17:18:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair?
Poster: Christine Andersen
Post title: I certainly try!

Of course I think I am better than average.

Value for money? Well, that is what I tell clients if they think I am expensive. I have no idea what average means in my language pair - I have seen everything from abysmal to brilliant, but I assume there are enough competent professionals around to get the average standard up to definitely acceptable.

I don't honestly know where I am on the scale... but I voted yes in answer to the question.

Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair? | That is a dependent parameter.

Mojtaba_ — Tue, 21 Nov 2017 15:19:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair?
Poster: Mojtaba_
Post title: That is a dependent parameter.

From text to text, from schedule to schedule, from quality to quality,

The struggle continues over the price.

The factors related to a translation depends on many issues which cannot be generally discussed.

However, in case I like a text I provide a price that allows the end user to accept the offer.

As to my previous experiences, some of my customers always mention that they need it to be my personal touch.

I believe in translation work, one needs discipline, quality, agility, flexibility, and proper software tools.

Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair? | That's what I strive for: adding value to what I deliver

José Henrique Lamensdorf — Tue, 21 Nov 2017 12:16:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair?
Poster: José Henrique Lamensdorf
Post title: That's what I strive for: adding value to what I deliver

Many people can translate, in all shades of quality and price. If cost is the one-and-only concern, they can use free online machine translation, whose overall quality is often equivalent to overly cheap human service, though the flaws differ in their nature.

So how do I add value?

I reckon that many clients don't know enough about translation to make sound decisions on how they'll meet their goals that involve translation. So I provide them truckloads of guidance on [url= [url removed] ]my web site[/url], covering all the services I offer. Some typical examples are the not so widely published details on [url= [url removed] ]sworn translations in Brazil[/url], pointers do decide on [url= [url removed] ]dubbing or subtitling[/url] a video, also on deciding whether the best solution will be hiring [url= [url removed] ]a translator or a translation agency[/url], and so on.

If that's not enough, I'll give them personal guidance by different communication channels. While I charge for everything I do, I'll try to do (and hence charge) as little as possible. After all, my rates are not on the cheap side, just average, so there is no point in wasting money on them.

I add value on the way, too. If the video I am expected to translate and subtitle has bad audio, I'll improve it to boost my productivity. Upon finalizing it, it's just a matter of clicking on a different place to have my clear-sounding audio replace the original soundtrack.

And finally, after the job has been delivered, if they find any typo to fix, or want something different, like a period replacing a comma in subtitles, I'll do it immediately, at no charge.

Yesterday a client wrote me on the guidance I gave her on some procedures regarding the sworn translation of a PoA. She had been discussing it with notaries for two weeks, and was getting close to the complete solution I gave her in my first reply via e-mail.

Clients value that. Today a client called me, saying I did some sworn translations for her husband a couple of years ago, before they moved from Brazil to the UK. Now she is beck here, visiting, and needs a few other such translations.

I guess adding value is what makes clients return.

Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair? | I don't know...

Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida — Tue, 21 Nov 2017 10:43:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair?
Poster: Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Post title: I don't know...

With so many unknown quantities, this equation has no solution. What is better value? What is average? I guess I’m rated higher than average when it comes to quality and price…

Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair? | I do not know

Chié_JP — Tue, 21 Nov 2017 10:37:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair?
Poster: Chié_JP
Post title: I do not know

Part time translators may offer faster turnaround at cheaper rate, say "Yes we can" to anything client asks.

They can beat full time freelancers who never compromise quality and negotiate when they absolutely need time to keep quality, in that aspect.

Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair? | Yes

neilmac — Tue, 21 Nov 2017 09:47:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair?
Poster: neilmac
Post title: Yes

And even if I didn't think so, it would probably still be "good business" to say I did.

Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair? | Everybody thinks they're above average

Kay Denney — Tue, 21 Nov 2017 09:16:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair?
Poster: Kay Denney
Post title: Everybody thinks they're above average

Apparently two-thirds of drivers think they are above average. Obviously that's not true.

I'm not sure if I offer better value. It depends what you want. If you just want a plain vanilla explanation of how to use a hair-dryer, plenty of others will offer better value for money. If you want a text selling something to people with a French mindset to be turned into a text selling something to people with a Brit mindset, I might be among the best.

I'm confident that I can produce a suitable text, my main problem is persuading the client that that is what they need, rather than a literal translation where they can tell what translates what.

Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair? | Yes and no

The Shredder — Tue, 21 Nov 2017 09:10:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair?
Poster: The Shredder
Post title: Yes and no

As my dear friend Tina Turner - lovely lady, salt of the Earth - once told me:

You're simply the best
Better than all the rest
Better than anyone
Anyone I ever met

On the other hand, I don't come cheap.

So it all depends on what the customer needs.

Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair? | I answered 'Yes'

Julian Holmes — Tue, 21 Nov 2017 08:55:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair?
Poster: Julian Holmes
Post title: I answered 'Yes'

but on second thoughts, I really don't have a clue because I'm pretty much sure that very few translators in my language pair are capable of handling or would take on the kind of work I accept. So, there really is no reference for comparison.

However, I can say with 100% confidence that I leave no stones unturned and that my customers get a good deal for their money.
I'm worth my weight in gold, which is an excellent reason not to go on a diet. :grin:

Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair? | I don't know

Elizabeth Tamblin (X) — Tue, 21 Nov 2017 08:50:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair?
Poster: Elizabeth Tamblin (X)
Post title: I don't know

Before answering, I would need to know what the average value is, and I imagine that would be quite difficult to quantify.

Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair? | No

Gianluca Marras — Tue, 21 Nov 2017 08:12:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair?
Poster: Gianluca Marras
Post title: No

I offer a good service and I think a lot of colleagues in my language pair offer even a better service.

Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair?

ProZ.com Staff — Tue, 21 Nov 2017 08:10:02 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair?
Poster: ProZ.com Staff

This forum topic is for the discussion of the poll question "Do you think you offer better value than average in your language pair?".

This poll was originally submitted by Anne Lee. View the poll results »