ProZ.com Translation Forums

Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason? | :)

Gjorgji Apostolovski — Sat, 23 Nov 2024 15:53:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason?
Poster: Gjorgji Apostolovski
Post title: :)

[quote]Daryo wrote:

[quote]Gjorgji Apostolovski wrote:

Because men are bosses, that's why. [/quote]

You mean ...they imagine they are bosses?

Anyway, given the direction where the whole of the language industry is heading, I find it very interesting that anyone thought that this the most urgent concern. "Divide et Impera" - rings a bell? [/quote]

That's happened to our ex country, brate.

Now we have female president, and female Deputy Secretary General in NATO, and female mayor of our capital city. Thumbs up for their personal success, but I don't see any improvement in my country. All same, many arrested criminals got president's pardon this year, same like with previous presidents. And the new Deputy Secretary General in NATO changed our country name so she can be Deputy Secretary General in NATO, and the mayor of our capital city left people hanging for hours on cold the other day, when the public transportation decided to not drive, because they don't have fuel. This happened without any announcement.

I think that the saying was: Behind every man's success there is a woman.
Or it was: When the devil can't reach you, he sends a woman.
Anyway, same point.

[Edited at 2024-11-23 16:16 GMT]

[Edited at 2024-11-23 17:45 GMT]

Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason? | You mean ...

Daryo — Sat, 23 Nov 2024 14:21:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason?
Poster: Daryo
Post title: You mean ...

[quote]Gjorgji Apostolovski wrote:

Because men are bosses, that's why. [/quote]

You mean ...they imagine they are bosses?

Anyway, given the direction where the whole of the language industry is heading, I find it very interesting that anyone thought that this the most urgent concern. "Divide et Impera" - rings a bell?

Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason? | The report

Philip Lees — Sat, 23 Nov 2024 07:37:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason?
Poster: Philip Lees
Post title: The report

I don't know if anybody else looked up the ELIS2023 report to see what it actually said. But, for the record:

[url removed]

A. "The survey covers market trends, expectations and concerns, challenges and obstacles, as well as
changes in business practices. It is open to language service companies (LSCs), independent language
professionals, training institutes, language service buyers, as well as private and public translation
departments."

Notes:

1. Although it refers to the "European language industry", the survey also includes data from North and South America, Africa, Asia and Oceania. However, for most countries in those latter continents the number of responses was below what the survey defined as its "reliability threshold" and, as the report warns, the data "should be analysed with caution".

2. As this was a voluntary survey, there is the danger of selection bias in the responses. For example, the number of responses from Greece (pop. ~10 million) is the same as from France (pop. ~66 million). Thus, the results of averaged distributions are unlikely to be representative.

B. As regards the gender distribution, "ELIS data confirms that the language industry is a women-dominated industry, with as many as 80% female independent professionals. Within LSCs, the gender distribution is slightly more balanced, with 62% female representation."

Notes:

1. Although the independent language professionals are clearly predominantly female, "LSCs show a strongly role-dependent gender distribution. Among company owners and general managers, there is close to gender parity, while participating project and resource managers - but also sales people and other management profiles - are primarily women." (bold marking added by me)

2. More specifically, "36% of the participating LSCs are woman-owned". That does not look like "gender parity" to me.

3. So the "62% female representation" in LSCs - which is also not "gender parity" - covers the entire staff, including people who, in this era of business newspeak, may have the title "manager" but in reality manage only themselves. This finding does not excite me one way or the other.

My conclusion:

Although there is a clear and large predominance of female independent professionals, that is a long way from making the language industry a women-dominated one. Partly because "predominance" does not equal "dominance", and partly because the figures for LSCs and other parts of the industry suggest a different picture.

Moreover, the data behind the survey, as the authors themselves admit, may have been subject to statistical bias, while the "reliability thresholds" they set for each country were somewhat arbitrary.

"For mature language service countries, ELIS uses a target threshold of 10 companies and 20 independent professionals. For smaller economies, this threshold has been set to 5 and 10 respectively."

I also agree with Sandra that when it comes to individuals independently pursuing a profession they have chosen, the presence of more women or men is not a terribly important statistic

Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason? | Sorry, but I don't care much...

expressisverbis — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 20:47:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason?
Poster: expressisverbis
Post title: Sorry, but I don't care much...

Women can dominate the language industry, but men are overrepresented in others (for example, tech, and engineering).
I don't care much about ELIS2023 findings or alike because what matters most in any profession is the competence, passion, and commitment of each individual working in it, regardless of gender.
In my opinion, the presence of more women or men in a profession often reflects historical or cultural trends rather than intrinsic differences.
At the end of the day, everyone brings unique strengths to the table.

Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason? | Well ...

Rachel Waddington — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 18:36:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason?
Poster: Rachel Waddington
Post title: Well ...

[quote]Mario Chávez wrote:

I don't remember treating your comment with disdain or laughing out loud about it. Kindly afford the same courtesy and manners I showed.

MEC

[quote]Rachel Waddington wrote:

[quote]Mario Chávez wrote:

It has nothing to do with sexism or working from home.

Translation as a profession has been taught in universities and colleges for many decades. My own alma mater started as a School of Languages to train language teachers. In my first sophomore year, I was one of five male students; the rest, about 99 or 100, were women. Did we feel slighted, treated differently due to sexism, or overwhelmed? Not in the least.[/quote]

Of course you didn't. Because a few men in a predominantly female environment will have a very different experience to a few women in a predominantly male environment. [/quote] [/quote]

You did start your post by saying "It has nothing to do with sexism or working from home" which came across as pretty disdainful to me.

Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason? | Professional

Lieven Malaise — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 18:29:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason?
Poster: Lieven Malaise
Post title: Professional

[quote]Mario Chávez wrote:
Let's keep it at a professional level. You don't know me, I don't need to be lectured on sexism, feminism or other topics I've raised. [/quote]

Because your words were on a professional level? I suggest you read it again, because it wasn't pretty.

To conclude: if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. There was zero need to say what you have said.

Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason? | Again, let's be professional about it

Mario Chávez — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 18:22:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason?
Poster: Mario Chávez
Post title: Again, let's be professional about it

I don't remember treating your comment with disdain or laughing out loud about it. Kindly afford the same courtesy and manners I showed.

MEC

[quote]Rachel Waddington wrote:

[quote]Mario Chávez wrote:

It has nothing to do with sexism or working from home.

Translation as a profession has been taught in universities and colleges for many decades. My own alma mater started as a School of Languages to train language teachers. In my first sophomore year, I was one of five male students; the rest, about 99 or 100, were women. Did we feel slighted, treated differently due to sexism, or overwhelmed? Not in the least.[/quote]

Of course you didn't. Because a few men in a predominantly female environment will have a very different experience to a few women in a predominantly male environment. [/quote]

Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason? | Shall we dispense with personal aspersions?

Mario Chávez — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 18:20:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason?
Poster: Mario Chávez
Post title: Shall we dispense with personal aspersions?

Let's keep it at a professional level. You don't know me, I don't need to be lectured on sexism, feminism or other topics I've raised. You're welcome to contact me privately if you want.

We don't need to make this poll conversation an argument.

[quote]Lieven Malaise wrote:

[quote]Mario Chávez wrote:
Back then, feminism was moderate and not in the clutch of extreme postmodernists whose answer to almost every human conflict is about gender roles.[/quote]

You mean that back then women weren't as empowered yet as they are today, not to say that they were partially second-class citizens. Ah, those good ol times... Not.

In Western Europe the situation has improved significantly (still a long way to go, though), but the US is showing us that it possibly won't last.

You have some nerve to exclude the notion of sexism, while the US is showing us all that a(n AWFUL) lot of young and old men would love to see women in the kitchen behind their husband again, taking care of their 8 children, even after all those years.

[Bijgewerkt op 2024-11-22 16:16 GMT] [/quote]

Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason? | lol

Rachel Waddington — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 16:56:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason?
Poster: Rachel Waddington
Post title: lol

[quote]Mario Chávez wrote:

It has nothing to do with sexism or working from home.

Translation as a profession has been taught in universities and colleges for many decades. My own alma mater started as a School of Languages to train language teachers. In my first sophomore year, I was one of five male students; the rest, about 99 or 100, were women. Did we feel slighted, treated differently due to sexism, or overwhelmed? Not in the least.[/quote]

Of course you didn't. Because a few men in a predominantly female environment will have a very different experience to a few women in a predominantly male environment.

Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason? | Reference

Novian Cahyadi (X) — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 16:10:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason?
Poster: Novian Cahyadi (X)
Post title: Reference

[quote]IrinaN wrote:
We either know or can easily find that. It's just that there are a few desperate fighters here, myself including, trying to explain that it is... hmm... not nice to meet and greet the reader and the discussion participant with acronyms and codes, especially for professionals who themselves would swear left an right on all languages known to them, when they get a source text stuffed with undeciphered abbreviations.

Elementary, Watson. [/quote]

I also didn't know what ELIS2023 was supposed to be. If anything, I could use this as reference in the future.

Anyway, the question is ill-suited for a quick poll. A substantial topic like this deserves a thread of its own.

Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason? | Yikes

Lieven Malaise — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 15:35:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason?
Poster: Lieven Malaise
Post title: Yikes

[quote]Mario Chávez wrote:
Back then, feminism was moderate and not in the clutch of extreme postmodernists whose answer to almost every human conflict is about gender roles.[/quote]

You mean that back then women weren't as empowered yet as they are today, not to say that they were partially second-class citizens. Ah, those good ol times... Not.

In Western Europe the situation has improved significantly (still a long way to go, though), but the US is showing us that it possibly won't last.

You have some nerve to exclude the notion of sexism, while the US is showing us all that a(n AWFUL) lot of young and old men would love to see women in the kitchen behind their husband again, taking care of their 8 children, even after all those years.

[Bijgewerkt op 2024-11-22 16:16 GMT]

Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason? | I beg to differ

Mario Chávez — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 15:01:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason?
Poster: Mario Chávez
Post title: I beg to differ

It has nothing to do with sexism or working from home.

Translation as a profession has been taught in universities and colleges for many decades. My own alma mater started as a School of Languages to train language teachers. In my first sophomore year, I was one of five male students; the rest, about 99 or 100, were women. Did we feel slighted, treated differently due to sexism, or overwhelmed? Not in the least. Back then, feminism was moderate and not in the clutch of extreme postmodernists whose answer to almost every human conflict is about gender roles.

This poll has biased options to answer, I'm afraid. But I needed to speak up.

MC

[quote]Rachel Waddington wrote:

Women still do a disproportionate share of domestic labour and caring duties. It's easier to do this if you can work from home.

Working from home also allows women an environment where they are not constantly harrassed and talked down to by men. [/quote]

Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason? | men are bosses

Gjorgji Apostolovski — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 14:46:00 +0000

Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason? | Other

Liena V. — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 13:16:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason?
Poster: Liena V.
Post title: Other

Cultural and societal expectations which lead to higher female enrollment in humanities (and other related factors), I'd say.

Although before joining the "language industry" I studied philosophy which was very male-dominated at the time. I don't know what conclusions to draw from that, except that I'm glad for the income I've had thanks to my translation work.

Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason? | We either know or can easily find that

IrinaN (X) — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 11:10:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason?
Poster: IrinaN (X)
Post title: We either know or can easily find that

[quote]Novian Cahyadi wrote:

[quote]Lieven Malaise wrote:
What is ELIS2023? [/quote]

Apparently, it's the 2023 European Language Industry Survey.

[/quote]

It's just that there are a few desperate fighters here, myself including, trying to explain that it is... hmm... not nice to meet and greet the reader and the discussion participant with acronyms and codes, especially for professionals who themselves would swear left an right on all languages known to them, when they get a source text stuffed with undeciphered abbreviations.

Elementary, Watson.

Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason? | @All

Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 10:54:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason?
Poster: Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Post title: @All

Although not very relevant in statistical terms, it might be interesting to know what the proportion of women and men is among Proz.com members...

Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason? | Other

Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 10:17:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason?
Poster: Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Post title: Other

I have no idea why this industry is female-dominated (probably all of the above or a combination of some). I suppose that for many women the fact that they can work from home (long before teleworking became a fixture in peoples' everyday lexicon) has been a big attraction, although in my case I started by working in-house as staff translator. I also know that at a certain point in my life it was much easier to find a job as a translator than as an economist...

Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason? | Invisibility/low status/low pay

Edith van der Have — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 10:13:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason?
Poster: Edith van der Have
Post title: Invisibility/low status/low pay

A variety of reasons, but I think the above-mentioned are important ones. Though it's hard to know what's the cause and result - it could also be the other way around.

Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason? | Plays to women's strengths

Chris Spurgin — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 09:52:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason?
Poster: Chris Spurgin
Post title: Plays to women's strengths

Women are higher in verbal aptitude, more interested in foreign languages.

Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason? | A moot point going forward

Baran Keki — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 09:46:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason?
Poster: Baran Keki
Post title: A moot point going forward

AI has no gender, but this doesn't change the fact that it's a c**t.

Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason? | Sexism

Rachel Waddington — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 09:39:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason?
Poster: Rachel Waddington
Post title: Sexism

Women still do a disproportionate share of domestic labour and caring duties. It's easier to do this if you can work from home.

Working from home also allows women an environment where they are not constantly harrassed and talked down to by men.

Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason? | Women study foreign languages in disproportionate numbers

Justin Peterson — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 09:19:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason?
Poster: Justin Peterson
Post title: Women study foreign languages in disproportionate numbers

When I was a Spanish professor, I was struck by the fact that women accounted for some 75%-80% of Spanish majors in our department.
Whether this pattern is for reasons related to their innate aptitudes, or for sociocultural reasons, or a mix of the two, I do not know.
I suspect it is both.
In our still-sexist societies, men, I think men are encouraged to go into the most lucrative careers possible, to be breadwinners, while women are encouraged to pursue more "alternative" academic and career paths.
At the same time, there is also evidence that women are better language learners, and have stronger language skills, in general.

Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason? | Für ELIS

Novian Cahyadi (X) — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 09:18:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason?
Poster: Novian Cahyadi (X)
Post title: Für ELIS

[quote]Lieven Malaise wrote:
What is ELIS2023? [/quote]

Apparently, it's the 2023 European Language Industry Survey.

[url removed]

Here's a funny tidbit. When I looked it up without advanced parameters, the search engine thought I was looking for Elvis.

Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason? | Which..

Matthias Brombach — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 09:02:00 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason?
Poster: Matthias Brombach
Post title: Which..

...of what, please?

Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason? | "Which is the main reason" for what?

IrinaN (X) — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 08:47:00 +0000

Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason? | ?

Lieven Malaise — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 08:25:00 +0000

Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason?

ProZ.com Staff — Fri, 22 Nov 2024 08:10:04 +0000

Forum: Poll Discussion
Topic: Poll: ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason?
Poster: ProZ.com Staff

This forum topic is for the discussion of the poll question "ELIS2023 confirms the language industry is a women-dominated industry, which is the main reason?".

View the poll results »