formsichere Orchesterwerke

English translation: with infallible sense for the suitable musical form (or just: for musical form)

01:21 Nov 11, 2007

German to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Music

German term or phrase: formsichere Orchesterwerke

From an article about a German composer:
Das seinem Wesen Entsprechende hat B.-W. in einer Reihe von klassizistischen Kammermusikwerken ausgesprochen, denen sich **formsichere** Orchesterwerke, wie die E-dur-Sinfonie op. 36 und die Lustspielouvertüre op. 61 anfügen.

Does it refer to works that have a set or predefined form? or to the composer's strict adherence to a form? I'm uncertain of how the meaning of "sicher" figures in. If someone could even just explain the term in German, I would appreciate it.

Ann C Sherwin KudoZ activity Questions: 72 (none open) (3 closed without grading) Answers: 139
Local time: 21:46

English translation:with infallible sense for the suitable musical form (or just: for musical form)

Explanation:
Angesichts der Tatsache, dass er Kontrapunkt und Harmonie etc. lehrte, scheint mir diese Interpretation die logischste zu sein: Er kannte sich mit musikalischen Formen gut aus, der Beweis ist, dass er klassizistische Werke schrieb, also auf frühere Formen zurückgriff. Allerdings finde ich keine geeignete bzw. kurze englische Formulierung dafür! Hoffentlich bringt es trotzdem etwas.

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Note added at 1 hr (2007-11-11 02:30:19 GMT)
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In my opinion "sicher" in this context means "having a firm knowledge of musical forms" (which shows in his compositions for orchestra)

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Note added at 1 day11 hrs (2007-11-12 13:00:31 GMT)
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Nach einiger Überlegung (und Schlaf) bin ich zu der Schlußfolgerung gelangt, dass sich "formsicher" auf den Kompositionsstil bezieht ("auf formsichere Art komponierte Orchesterwerke"), also weder direkt auf den Komponisten noch auf das Werk. Letzteres wäre absurd, denn ein Musikstück kann nicht seiner eigenen Form sicher sein, es hat ja kein Urteilsvermögen! (Es kann hingegen sehr strukturiert oder streng in einer bestimmten musikalischen Form komponiert sein.) Der Text unterstreicht das kompositionstechnische Know-How Beer-Wallbruns - und die Tatsache, dass dieses Können seine wesentliche Qualität als Komponist ausmacht ("Das seinem Wesen Entsprechende...").

Selected response from:

Mariamne Lohe
Local time: 03:46

Grading comment

Thanks. I'm not ready to enter an answer in the glossary, but your thought process was helpful.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

3 +1

with infallible sense for the suitable musical form (or just: for musical form)

Mariamne Lohe

conventionally/traditionally/solidly/consisently structured orchestral works

Francis Lee (X)

Discussion entries: 6

Answers

1 day 10 hrs confidence:

conventionally/traditionally/solidly/consisently structured orchestral works

Explanation:
My first thought was "conventionally structured", although I'm not sure. If, however, the source term refers to his works within themselves, then perhaps "solidly/consisently ..." - although I'm not 100% happy with either.

Francis Lee (X)
Local time: 03:46
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 25

58 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

formsichere [Orchesterwerke]

with infallible sense for the suitable musical form (or just: for musical form)

Mariamne Lohe
Local time: 03:46
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

German
PRO pts in category: 4

Grading comment

Thanks. I'm not ready to enter an answer in the glossary, but your thought process was helpful.

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