Glossary entry (derived from question below)
English term or phrase:
Ali hates it when his daughter tells lies.
Turkish translation:
Ali kızının yalan söylemesinden nefret ediyor.
Added to glossary by
Özden Arıkan
Jul 22, 2004 08:12
19 yrs ago
1 viewer *
English term
Ali hates it when his daughter tells lies.
Non-PRO
English to Turkish
Art/Literary
Linguistics
Here is another it + when structure that I'd like to discuss with you. It is slightly different from the 'She likes it when her children...'-sentence.
The sentence says that Ali's daughter tells lies, but it is not said how often. When she lies (what actually happens, because it is said 'when' and not 'if') Ali hates the behaviour of his daughter; he does not hate his daughter, of course. I think this is the intended message of the sentence.
When I translate now this sentence into Turkish, regarding the suggestions you made in the translations of the "She likes it when her children..."-sentence, I get:
Ali, kızının yalan söylemesinden nefret eder.
Is this translation correct, or does it imply that Ali's daughter always/continuously tells lies (what the English sentence certainly doesn't imply)? It seems to me that the connection (or interrelation) of 'hate' and the 'times when Ali's daughter tells lies' is not expressed in Turkish. (For me, this connection is also not expressed in the "She likes when her children..."-sentence.) I can't sort out this problem because Turkish is not my mother tongue, so I need your help.
Thanks in advance. Stefan
The sentence says that Ali's daughter tells lies, but it is not said how often. When she lies (what actually happens, because it is said 'when' and not 'if') Ali hates the behaviour of his daughter; he does not hate his daughter, of course. I think this is the intended message of the sentence.
When I translate now this sentence into Turkish, regarding the suggestions you made in the translations of the "She likes it when her children..."-sentence, I get:
Ali, kızının yalan söylemesinden nefret eder.
Is this translation correct, or does it imply that Ali's daughter always/continuously tells lies (what the English sentence certainly doesn't imply)? It seems to me that the connection (or interrelation) of 'hate' and the 'times when Ali's daughter tells lies' is not expressed in Turkish. (For me, this connection is also not expressed in the "She likes when her children..."-sentence.) I can't sort out this problem because Turkish is not my mother tongue, so I need your help.
Thanks in advance. Stefan
Proposed translations
(Turkish)
Change log
Jul 4, 2005 02:27: Özden Arıkan changed "Level" from "PRO" to "Non-PRO"
Proposed translations
+5
5 hrs
Nazim Aziz Gokdemir
Native in English
&
Turkish
Completely at home in two cultures
Native in: Turkish 
, English
Works in: English to Turkish, Turkish to English, English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
Selected
Ali kýzýnýn yalan söylemesinden nefret ediyor (correct, but not colloquial)
In case the UTF/8859 encoding doesn't appear correctly, here it is in ASCII:
Ali kizinin yalan söylemesinden nefret ediyor. (As a previous poster noted, the continuous tense is more appropriate in Turkish than the present, even though the original uses present.)
This is perfectly acceptable for a workbook translation, but in real life it might be more likely to hear:
Ali kizinin yalan söyleme huyundan nefret ediyor.
Kizinin sürekli yalan söylemesi Ali için önemli bir sorun.
etc.
These alternatives add shades of meaning that are not in the original, so strictly speaking they're not "correct," but in a literary translation you would try to come up with an expression more along these lines.
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Note added at 5 hrs 41 mins (2004-07-22 13:54:36 GMT)
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Let\'s try Turkish letters as well:
Ali kızının yalan söylemesinden nefret ediyor.
Ali kizinin yalan söylemesinden nefret ediyor. (As a previous poster noted, the continuous tense is more appropriate in Turkish than the present, even though the original uses present.)
This is perfectly acceptable for a workbook translation, but in real life it might be more likely to hear:
Ali kizinin yalan söyleme huyundan nefret ediyor.
Kizinin sürekli yalan söylemesi Ali için önemli bir sorun.
etc.
These alternatives add shades of meaning that are not in the original, so strictly speaking they're not "correct," but in a literary translation you would try to come up with an expression more along these lines.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs 41 mins (2004-07-22 13:54:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Let\'s try Turkish letters as well:
Ali kızının yalan söylemesinden nefret ediyor.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
gbaydar
11 mins
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Teşekkür ederim
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| agree |
Sweet Prince (X)
1 hr
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Teşekkür ederim
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| agree |
UTEB
: Tabii, bütün tekstin hangi tense'de çevrildiğine bağlı.
10 hrs
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Evet.
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| agree |
murat Karahan
: virgül.... :) TT'nin notu ancak kişisel bir dilbilgisi bana göre. Dilbilgisi kuralları da uzlaşıya dayandığı için kişisel olamaz.
2 days 2 hrs
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TT'nin notu da önemli bir noktayı yakalıyor bu arada...
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| agree |
Guetta
3 days 7 hrs
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Teşekkür
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+7
3 mins
Serkan Doğan
Türkiye
Türkiye
Native in Turkish
Works in field
Türkiye
Linguist & Translator-Bilirkişi Tercüman
Native in: Turkish
Works in: Turkish to English, English to Turkish, Ottoman, and 4 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
8
Ali kızının yalan söylemesinden nefret eder.
yes this is correct Stefan, either it happens always or sometimes
"Ali kızı yalan söylediği zaman.." is a little different too, as you already argued.
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Note added at 6 mins (2004-07-22 08:19:16 GMT)
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We would love to help you, but maybe you need to see some Turkish grammer books, if any available, for full details. Regards.
"Ali kızı yalan söylediği zaman.." is a little different too, as you already argued.
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Note added at 6 mins (2004-07-22 08:19:16 GMT)
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We would love to help you, but maybe you need to see some Turkish grammer books, if any available, for full details. Regards.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
shenay kharatekin
: kelime hatası yapmışımm
4 mins
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thank (?)
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| agree |
Altug Isigan
: exact phrase match :-) aynisini yazacaktim ben de.
33 mins
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thank you :}
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| agree |
Sweet Prince (X)
: /// Your welcome Mr.Serkân (Şapkalı a'ya dikkat) :=))) DDH'den selamlar.
1 hr
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thank you mrs. ddh
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| agree |
Nazim Aziz Gokdemir
6 hrs
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thank you
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| agree |
UTEB
15 hrs
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thank you
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| agree |
murat Karahan
: virgül.... :)
2 days 8 hrs
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thank you,
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| neutral |
1964
: Bu peergrade herkese: Nefret eder diye Türkçede bu tür bir kullanım pek uygun değildir aslında İngilizceden anlam tecavüzü denilebilir, Hiç hoşlanmaz veya tasvip etmez, çirkin bulur veya hiç hazzetmez şeklinde daha Türkçe olur.
3 days 9 hrs
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thank
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| agree |
Özden Arıkan
6 days
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thank you
|
+5
33 mins
murat Karahan
Türkiye
Türkiye
Native in Turkish
Türkiye
28 years in subtitling, dubbing transl.
Native in: Turkish
Works in: English to Turkish, German to Turkish, Turkish to German, and 1 more.
It's correct
I have to say so, otherwise my previous suggestion would be wrong :D
Anyway, in order to imply continuity the sentence would end with "ediyor", which is continous tense as you know. This way the translation of such a sentence from English to Turkish could be "Ali hates her daughter telling lies."
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Note added at 4 days (2004-07-26 18:08:30 GMT)
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Dear Stefan
The major problem seems to me that we are all translators here, therefore we would go with the most acceptable answer, in other words by the structure which would be most common. So \"Ali, kızının yalan söylemesinden nefret ediyor.\" may not be the most grammatical equivalent, but if you look at it as a translator it is the most acceptable one (of course other suggestions are included in this-I\'m
not supposing that there is just one correct answer).
The last structure you suggested (and \"bundan\" is required in that sentence) is grammatically speaking correct, but this is textbook Turkish and doesn\'t reflect daily speech.
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Note added at 4 days (2004-07-26 18:50:21 GMT)
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Tayfun\'a
Nefret etmek Türkçe\'de sıklıkla kullanılır. Diğer önerilerin dislike, loathe, despise vs gibi kelimelerle karşılanabilir. Hepsi eşanlamlı görünse bile aralarında \"şiddet\" açısından bir farklılık var. Böyle bir cümleye gelince, nasılsa bağlam da yok:
Ali, kızı yalan söylediğinde köpürür/hiddetlenir/.
Ali, kızının yalan söylemedinden tiksinir.
Bunlar da olası seçenekler ve hiçbiri uygun olmadığı şeklinde değerlendirilemez. Aslında öfkelenmek/çok kızmak kalıp olarak daha kullanışlı olsa da, gramer açısından istenen kaluba uymaz bu sefer.
Anyway, in order to imply continuity the sentence would end with "ediyor", which is continous tense as you know. This way the translation of such a sentence from English to Turkish could be "Ali hates her daughter telling lies."
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 days (2004-07-26 18:08:30 GMT)
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Dear Stefan
The major problem seems to me that we are all translators here, therefore we would go with the most acceptable answer, in other words by the structure which would be most common. So \"Ali, kızının yalan söylemesinden nefret ediyor.\" may not be the most grammatical equivalent, but if you look at it as a translator it is the most acceptable one (of course other suggestions are included in this-I\'m
not supposing that there is just one correct answer).
The last structure you suggested (and \"bundan\" is required in that sentence) is grammatically speaking correct, but this is textbook Turkish and doesn\'t reflect daily speech.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 days (2004-07-26 18:50:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Tayfun\'a
Nefret etmek Türkçe\'de sıklıkla kullanılır. Diğer önerilerin dislike, loathe, despise vs gibi kelimelerle karşılanabilir. Hepsi eşanlamlı görünse bile aralarında \"şiddet\" açısından bir farklılık var. Böyle bir cümleye gelince, nasılsa bağlam da yok:
Ali, kızı yalan söylediğinde köpürür/hiddetlenir/.
Ali, kızının yalan söylemedinden tiksinir.
Bunlar da olası seçenekler ve hiçbiri uygun olmadığı şeklinde değerlendirilemez. Aslında öfkelenmek/çok kızmak kalıp olarak daha kullanışlı olsa da, gramer açısından istenen kaluba uymaz bu sefer.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Sweet Prince (X)
54 mins
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Teşekkür ederim.
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| agree |
servet_000
5 hrs
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Teşekkür ederim.
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| agree |
Nazim Aziz Gokdemir
6 hrs
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Teşekkür ederim.
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| agree |
Guetta
3 days 12 hrs
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Teşekkür ederim.
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| agree |
Özden Arıkan
6 days
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| neutral |
1964
: birşeyi yapmasından nefret etmek kesinlikle türkçe değil ve aslında bir deyim yani onlarda nefret etmiyor olay biraz soğuduktan sonra üzerined düşünürseniz bunun otomat bir çeviririn kafamızda yer etmesinden kaynaklanan bir yanılsama olduğunu görürsünüz:)
6 days
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Bir şeyden nefret etmek, bir şeyi yapmaktan nefret etmek ile bir şeyin yapılmasından nefret etmek arasındaki farkı da açıklayın o halde, ilüzyonun nerede olduğunu anlarsınız. Hepsi nesne (öbeği) +fiildir. Değilse tersini açıklayın.
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Discussion
I see that even native Turkish speakers are not sure about which version is the best translation. The problem is actually whether the structure "... yalan s�yledi�inde (bundan) nefret eder/ediyor" is possible or not. (So, Serkan Do�an, your suggestion to use a grammar book is not very appropriate here [but of course this does not convey the meaning that I'm perfect at Turkish grammar]).
Gbaydar, in your response to Adil S�nmez's answer you perfectly brought out the meaning of the sentence (very probably without realizing it).
My best wishes
Stefan