https://www.proz.com/kudoz/english/general-conversation-greetings-letters/1007570-without-evidence.html
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cand.

Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

without evidence

English answer:

comment

Added to glossary by mockingbird (X)
Apr 20, 2005 11:12
19 yrs ago
4 viewers *
English term

without evidence

English Other General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
This is for a title of an article, does the "without evidence" work?

SEMEN PADANG EXAMINES MATERIAL PROCUREMENT WITHOUT EVIDENCE
Responses
2 +5 not good English
3 +5 ambiguous
5 it works
4 +1 absent any evidence
4 unsubstantiated procurement material
4 examines undocumented material procurement
3 investigates/looks into the procurement of materials which have no proof of delivery/shipment justif

Discussion

Non-ProZ.com Apr 21, 2005:
SO is "SEMEN PADANG TO EXAMINE MATERIAL PROCUREMENT THAT ARE NOT SUPPORTED WITH EVIDENCE" better for a title?
Non-ProZ.com Apr 21, 2005:
I am sorry for the confusion due to my lack of context. Semen Padang is a cement company. It has just completed its 2004 financial statement. However, there are some materials (spare part supplies)which have no evidence/proof/receipts. Hence, Semen Padang decides to look into this matter. It wants to examine the material procurement which has no proof/receipts/evidence.
RHELLER Apr 20, 2005:
please provide context - as it stands this phrase is unclear (what can be examined, if there is no evidence?)

Responses

+5
42 mins
Selected

not good English

I'm not so sure what is being said here. More context would be nice. But as it stands, SEMEN PADANG EXAMINES MATERIAL PROCUREMENT WITHOUT EVIDENCE tells me nothing. What is "material procurement"? And what does "without evidence" refer to? Perhaps the title should be "Semen Padang believes material procurement to be unfounded". But it's really hard to tell without knowing what the article is about.

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Note added at 1 day 1 hr 28 mins (2005-04-21 12:41:01 GMT)
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After the note from the asker, I would write the title as such: SEMEN PADANG TO EXAMINE unconfirmed PROCUREMENT OF MATERIALS.
Peer comment(s):
agree Robert Donahue (X)
23 mins
agree Ali Beikian
1 hr
agree Can Altinbay
2 hrs
agree Alfa Trans (X)
3 hrs
agree petya yakova : the whole sentence should be re-written
3 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "thanks"
8 mins

it works

However, you could try other options:

lacking evidence
without proof, etc.
Peer comment(s):
agree Vicky Papaprodromou
25 mins
thanks, Vicky
disagree lucasm (X) : It's not good English, and I think that is what the asker wants to know. To a native speaker, any of these suggestions would lead to confusion.
36 mins
Sorry, Lucas, the question here is whether "without evidence" would be a suitable title for an article, and as a matter of fact, it is, no matter how convoluted might be the context provided.
neutral Robert Donahue (X) : I'm with Lucas here on this. Without more context there is no way to determine whether this headline is understandable or not. Without evidence of what? Material procurement? It simply doesn't make sense to a native speaker of English (at least to me)
59 mins
agree petya yakova : agree to lucas and robert
4 hrs
disagree Refugio : it doesn't work
2 days 17 hrs
Something went wrong...
+5
58 mins

ambiguous

it's ambiguous what 'without evidence' refers to - 'Semen Padang examines' or 'material procurement'. But sometimes newspaper articles play with ambiguity to draw the reader in, so that might not necessarily be a problem.

I can't comment on the rest of the sentence - it's meaningless to me without context but I imagine this is in a specialized field and will make sense to those who know what 'material procurement' is!
Peer comment(s):
agree Ali Beikian
21 mins
agree lucasm (X) : Indeed. Your comment is certainly more diplomatic than mine, and you pinpoint the difficulty more succinctly. I have the feeling, though, that the problem isn't technical English, but rather a non-native formulation.
28 mins
Thanks Lucas, you could well be right but I keep on being surprised by terms in specialized fields that don't sound right to my native ear but turn out to be correct!
agree Robert Donahue (X)
1 hr
agree Ian M-H (X)
2 hrs
agree Can Altinbay
2 hrs
Something went wrong...
2 hrs

unsubstantiated procurement material

SEMEN PADANG EXAMINES UNSUBSTANTIATED PROCUREMENT MATERIAL

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Note added at 3 hrs 8 mins (2005-04-20 14:20:59 GMT)
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I think, by reading it over again, that it could also be rephrased:Semen Padang examination of the procurement materials is based on no evidence

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Note added at 4 hrs 45 mins (2005-04-20 15:58:02 GMT)
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a question to all: can we consider in this case that the selected by Semen Padang materials were not preliminary checked/not been prooved?
Something went wrong...
16 hrs

investigates/looks into the procurement of materials which have no proof of delivery/shipment justif

my suggestion would be to use a different verb: SP investigates/looks into procurement of materials which are unsupported by shipment justification
Something went wrong...
+1
1 hr

absent any evidence

I would prefer "absent any evidence"
examples:

"It appears to me that the JUDGE is taking it upon himself to make a “legal determination”, absent any evidence, as to whether Dick or his business had a legal duty to collect taxes..."

When FBI and DOJ agents falsely alleged the 19 Islamic hijackers conspiracy theory (absent any evidence) and; when other officers in government perpetrated an unlawful war on the people of Iraq and Afghanistan, based on this and other gross misrepresentations, is this not a criminal conspiracy of the highest magnitude?


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs 34 mins (2005-04-21 07:47:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

SEMEN PADANG TO EXAMINE MATERIAL PROCUREMENT NOT SUPPORTED WITH
EVIDENCE
Reference:

http://www.commonlawvenue.com/Misc/084-AnAnswer.htm

http://www.proliberty.com/observer/20041010.htm

Peer comment(s):
agree TranslateThis : I like your suggestion
1 hr
Thank you.
neutral petya yakova : nice suggestion but it is linked to what? theexaminations or the materials?
3 hrs
Thank you.
Something went wrong...
2 days 17 hrs

examines undocumented material procurement

+
Something went wrong...