Jun 20, 2005 04:39
19 yrs ago
1 viewer *
Spanish term
paroxytones in Spanish
Spanish to English
Other
Linguistics
Education
How are those words classified in English? I found out that graves, esdrújulas and agudas - as they are classified in Spanish - are called paroxytones (though, I don't know whether they are called 'paroxytone words' or 'paroxytones') what I really need to know is the term in English for 'palabras graves' and their corresponding language field such as: sílaba tónica, monosílabos, stressed v/s accentuated (if that word exists).
The source text like this:
"Mientras existan aquellos esforzados profesores de la patria que se enferman de úlceras enseñándoles a los machucados que las palabras graves llevan acento gráfico en la sílaba tónica cuando no terminan en n, s o vocal, y que los monosílabos no se acentúan gráficamente, a menos que lleven tilde diacrítica para distinguirse de otro monosílabo que tenga igual forma pero diferente significado o categoría gramatical, ¿cómo podríamos explicarles a los escolares que hay un precidente de la nasión que a yegado al palasio de la monea disiendole a su maza helectoral: “Te toca a tí”?"
My translation of the paragraph up to now is the following one
"As long as those hard-working language teachers of the country exist, who squeeze their brains out teaching the little bastards that in Spanish grave paroxytones take written accents in the tonic syllable, when not ended in n, s or vowel, and that monosyllables are only stressed - and not accentuated - unless they take an accent to mark the difference with another equally written monosyllable but having different meaning or grammatical category, how can we explain students that there is a nashion's precident that has arribed to the Palasio de la Monea tellin' his boters: 'Te toca a tí'?"
I know is a lot to ask, but I just need some hints on Spanish grammar taught from an English point of view, because I've only seen it the other way around. Thanks in advance!
PS: 'Machucados' is a very informal word in Chilean Spanish, it's derogative but not offensive, i. e., nobody would feel attacked if someone called them so. I can only think of 'little bastards' for an equivalent, though I am afraid that in English, is a lot more offensive than the Spanish term. Is that so? I'd appreciate if you replied this query as well. Thank you very much.
The source text like this:
"Mientras existan aquellos esforzados profesores de la patria que se enferman de úlceras enseñándoles a los machucados que las palabras graves llevan acento gráfico en la sílaba tónica cuando no terminan en n, s o vocal, y que los monosílabos no se acentúan gráficamente, a menos que lleven tilde diacrítica para distinguirse de otro monosílabo que tenga igual forma pero diferente significado o categoría gramatical, ¿cómo podríamos explicarles a los escolares que hay un precidente de la nasión que a yegado al palasio de la monea disiendole a su maza helectoral: “Te toca a tí”?"
My translation of the paragraph up to now is the following one
"As long as those hard-working language teachers of the country exist, who squeeze their brains out teaching the little bastards that in Spanish grave paroxytones take written accents in the tonic syllable, when not ended in n, s or vowel, and that monosyllables are only stressed - and not accentuated - unless they take an accent to mark the difference with another equally written monosyllable but having different meaning or grammatical category, how can we explain students that there is a nashion's precident that has arribed to the Palasio de la Monea tellin' his boters: 'Te toca a tí'?"
I know is a lot to ask, but I just need some hints on Spanish grammar taught from an English point of view, because I've only seen it the other way around. Thanks in advance!
PS: 'Machucados' is a very informal word in Chilean Spanish, it's derogative but not offensive, i. e., nobody would feel attacked if someone called them so. I can only think of 'little bastards' for an equivalent, though I am afraid that in English, is a lot more offensive than the Spanish term. Is that so? I'd appreciate if you replied this query as well. Thank you very much.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 5 +4 | [comment on your draft translation] |
Muriel Vasconcellos
|
| 4 +1 | paroxytones |
Gabriela Rodriguez
|
Proposed translations
+4
47 mins
Muriel Vasconcellos
United States
United States
Native in English
Specializes in field
United States
Each translation a gem!
Native in: English (Variant: US) 
Works in: Spanish to English, Portuguese to English
Related KudoZ points
:
120
Selected
[comment on your draft translation]
Below are a few suggestions, shown in brackets, in the context of your draft translation (see my credentials below).
...teaching the little ["bastards" IS vulgar and offensive, try something like "squirts"]
that in Spanish, paroxytones [paroxytones are synonymous with "palavras graves," not one kind of; see "paroxítonos" in the DRAE]
take written accents [on] the tonic syllable [unless they end in n, s or a] vowel,
and that monosyllables [do not take a written accent unless they need to be distinguished them from another word that is spelled the same way but has a different meaning or grammatical function].
["Stress" is a technical term for "accentuate" in English, so redundancy needs to be cut from your sentence][we say "grammatical function" instead of "grammatical category"].
(My credentials: I have a Ph.D. in theoretical linguistics with joint majors in Spanish and Portuguese linguistics.)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 49 mins (2005-06-20 05:29:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
It just came to me. You could say \"teaching the little BRATS\" That would be perfect.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs 36 mins (2005-06-20 08:16:15 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
Two corrections:
palaBras
and
monosyllables [do not take a written accent unless they need to be distinguished FROM another word that is spelled the same way but has a different meaning or grammatical function].
...teaching the little ["bastards" IS vulgar and offensive, try something like "squirts"]
that in Spanish, paroxytones [paroxytones are synonymous with "palavras graves," not one kind of; see "paroxítonos" in the DRAE]
take written accents [on] the tonic syllable [unless they end in n, s or a] vowel,
and that monosyllables [do not take a written accent unless they need to be distinguished them from another word that is spelled the same way but has a different meaning or grammatical function].
["Stress" is a technical term for "accentuate" in English, so redundancy needs to be cut from your sentence][we say "grammatical function" instead of "grammatical category"].
(My credentials: I have a Ph.D. in theoretical linguistics with joint majors in Spanish and Portuguese linguistics.)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 49 mins (2005-06-20 05:29:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
It just came to me. You could say \"teaching the little BRATS\" That would be perfect.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs 36 mins (2005-06-20 08:16:15 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
Two corrections:
palaBras
and
monosyllables [do not take a written accent unless they need to be distinguished FROM another word that is spelled the same way but has a different meaning or grammatical function].
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
William Pairman
: Excellent points. Brats is perfect too, tho I'm sure more than a few teachers would wish you could use "bastards" :o)
8 mins
|
|
Thanks, William! Very kind of you.
|
|
| agree |
Xavier Fitó
2 hrs
|
|
Thanks, Xaviar!
|
|
| agree |
Egmont
2 hrs
|
|
Thank you!
|
|
| agree |
Marina Soldati
7 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you very much. Your answer has clarified many doubts. I appreciate that you also took time to check prepositions, word choice, redundancy and register (bastard v/s squirts)appart from everything else. Thank you very much indeed."
+1
12 mins
Gabriela Rodriguez
Argentina
Argentina
Native in Spanish
Argentina
Highly qualified translator and editor!!
Native in: Spanish 
Works in: Spanish, English to Spanish
Related KudoZ points
:
4
paroxytones
Suerte!!!!!!!!!
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 mins (2005-06-20 04:52:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Paroxytone
Paroxytone is a linguistic term for a word with stress on the penultimate syllable, that is, the syllable before the last syllable, e.g, the English word canasta. Related terms are proparoxytone (stress on the last one but two) and oxytone (accented on the last one).
http://www.answers.com/paroxitones
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 mins (2005-06-20 04:52:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
As you can see, all the examples of oxytones and paroxytones have two syllables:
... On the other hand, the majority of words ending in -o are paroxytones, ...
home.unilang.org/main/forum/ viewtopic.php?t=396&start=390 - 82k - 18 Jun 200
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 mins (2005-06-20 04:53:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Tundrian Accentuation - [ Traduzca esta página ]
served\'; avión \'airplane\'; metús \'the same\'; paroxytones ending in a consonant (except
those ending in a simple vowel + n or s): plâstic \'plastic\'; ...
www.tundria.com/TundrianLanguage/tusp-accents.shtml - 33k
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 mins (2005-06-20 04:54:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
[PDF] The Sounds of Spanish: review questions for Chapters 14-25
Formato de archivo: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Versión en HTML
What types of Spanish words make up the class of regular paroxytones? What are
irregular. paroxytones? 14. What is a proparoxytone or palabra esdrújula? ...
www.cascadilla.com/ssaa/SSAAquestions14-25.pdf
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 mins (2005-06-20 04:55:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
*También son llamadas paroxytone words*
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 mins (2005-06-20 04:55:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
[PDF] The perception of lexical stress in Spanish
Formato de archivo: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
from paroxytone words are not perceived as equal to paroxytones in 0.83% of the
... paroxytones in 24.22% of the cases. On the contrary, proparoxytone words ...
liceu.uab.es/publicacions/ICPhS03.pdf
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 mins (2005-06-20 04:58:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Estudios filol os - Reglas del acento en parox nos: el espa ...
Reglas del acento en paroxítonos: el español peninsular. Stress rules in paroxytones:
Peninsular Spanish. Guillermo A. Toledo ...
mingaonline.uach.cl/ scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0071-17132002000100008&lng=es&nrm=iso&... - 48k
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 mins (2005-06-20 04:52:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Paroxytone
Paroxytone is a linguistic term for a word with stress on the penultimate syllable, that is, the syllable before the last syllable, e.g, the English word canasta. Related terms are proparoxytone (stress on the last one but two) and oxytone (accented on the last one).
http://www.answers.com/paroxitones
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 mins (2005-06-20 04:52:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
As you can see, all the examples of oxytones and paroxytones have two syllables:
... On the other hand, the majority of words ending in -o are paroxytones, ...
home.unilang.org/main/forum/ viewtopic.php?t=396&start=390 - 82k - 18 Jun 200
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 mins (2005-06-20 04:53:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Tundrian Accentuation - [ Traduzca esta página ]
served\'; avión \'airplane\'; metús \'the same\'; paroxytones ending in a consonant (except
those ending in a simple vowel + n or s): plâstic \'plastic\'; ...
www.tundria.com/TundrianLanguage/tusp-accents.shtml - 33k
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 mins (2005-06-20 04:54:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
[PDF] The Sounds of Spanish: review questions for Chapters 14-25
Formato de archivo: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Versión en HTML
What types of Spanish words make up the class of regular paroxytones? What are
irregular. paroxytones? 14. What is a proparoxytone or palabra esdrújula? ...
www.cascadilla.com/ssaa/SSAAquestions14-25.pdf
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 mins (2005-06-20 04:55:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
*También son llamadas paroxytone words*
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 mins (2005-06-20 04:55:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
[PDF] The perception of lexical stress in Spanish
Formato de archivo: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
from paroxytone words are not perceived as equal to paroxytones in 0.83% of the
... paroxytones in 24.22% of the cases. On the contrary, proparoxytone words ...
liceu.uab.es/publicacions/ICPhS03.pdf
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 mins (2005-06-20 04:58:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Estudios filol os - Reglas del acento en parox nos: el espa ...
Reglas del acento en paroxítonos: el español peninsular. Stress rules in paroxytones:
Peninsular Spanish. Guillermo A. Toledo ...
mingaonline.uach.cl/ scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0071-17132002000100008&lng=es&nrm=iso&... - 48k
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Claudia Luque Bedregal
6 mins
|
|
Muchas gracias clb y muy buenas noches!!!!!!!!!
|
Discussion
mingaonline.uach.cl/ scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0071-17132002000100008&lng=es&nrm=iso&... - 48k. Suerte!!!!