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This question was closed without grading. Reason: No acceptable answer
Apr 29, 2017 18:26
7 yrs ago
10 viewers *
German term

Umfänge

German to English Tech/Engineering Automotive / Cars & Trucks
This is a Daimler term which has caused me problems for years. I have usually translated it with 'scopes", but have never really felt comfortable with it.
Here is an examples with context:
"Nach aktuellem Stand wurden diese Umfänge noch keinem expliziten Baulos zugeordnet."
What they're talking about is a range of products/components to be delivered by a certain company.
Does anyone have any good ideas?
Proposed translations (English)
3 +1 ranges
4 scope (of delivery)
3 stock items

Discussion

Johannes Gleim May 7, 2017:
to scope or not to scope If the client is Daimler or any associated company I would adhere to its terminology. You may ask the client about his opinion, but he may recommend to follow it, too.

Note: closing without selecting an answer or not closing at all is not really fair, considering the time spent on this question by all peers and other peers, who may consult Kudoz hoping to find a valid answer for similar questions.
Richard Stephen (asker) May 6, 2017:
Close without awarding points Yes, I think that's what I'll do, since I had already mentioned this solution in my question.
Lancashireman May 6, 2017:
"I have usually translated it with 'scopes'... ...but have never really felt comfortable with it."

The implication was that the asker was looking for something better. Under the circumstances, it is hard to see how posting 'scopes' with a Duden URL meets the Kudoz 'most helpful' criteria.
Perhaps the best options would be to close without awarding points or to leave it open?
Johanna Timm, PhD May 6, 2017:
Thanks Stephen:) I appreciate the gesture. Don't feel that I "earned" the points, though - after all, Johannes was the one who suggested it first. At least we've established now that the term consistently used by Daimler in its English translations is "scope", whether we believe this to be the most appropriate term or not!
Richard Stephen (asker) May 6, 2017:
Most helpful were the discussion suggestions from Johanna. If you want to suggest scope (singular) I will give you the points.
Johannes Gleim May 3, 2017:
@ Johanna Danke für die beiden Daimler-Links. Nachfolgend die wesentlichen Fundstellen:

Leitfaden zur Internetapplikation Lieferscheindatenerfassung für Entwicklungsumfänge in DQM - Guideline for the internet application: Delivery-note-data entry for development parts and systems in DQM

Entscheiden Sie, ob Lieferscheindaten für Serien-/Nichtserien-Umfänge oder Entwicklungsumfänge (MTC Sindelfingen und MTC Stuttgart-Untertürkheim) erfasst werden sollen.- Decide between acquiring data for delivery note data regarding productive / non-productive scope or development scope (MTC Sindelfingen und MTC Stuttgart-Untertürkheim oder VTC Stuttgart-Untertürkheim).

Transportumfang anzeigen / senden - Show / send transport scope

5 Liefermenge - 5 Delivered quantity ('delivered scope')

Fazit: Mit Aunahme des Titels wird immer mit “scope” übersetzt (keine “scopes”).
Richard Stephen (asker) May 3, 2017:
@ Johanna Thanx for the references. I see in this translation they use 'scope' as a sigulare tantum, and it does not appear in plural and is used only as the translation for 'Umfang' (singular). However in the title 'Entwicklungsumfänge' is translated as 'development parts'. So here Ümfänge is translated as 'Parts'.
Johanna Timm, PhD May 2, 2017:
"scopes" for "Umfänge" is used in this Daimler document:
English:
https://daimler.portal.covisint.com/documents/107049/1998826...
German :
https://daimler.portal.covisint.com/c/document_library/get_f...
Ramey Rieger (X) Apr 30, 2017:
Yes, Andrew At least in the example given, I would simply use products/components, or as you said, range of products/components. Capacities also comes to mind, but is just as superfluous.
Richard Stephen (asker) Apr 29, 2017:
I don't think it really helps but: Es sind die Umfänge für die "Nullserienbelieferung der Baureihe XYZ".
Each subsupplier delivers a certain "scope" which could be, for example, the windshield wiper motors and matching wiring harness, or all the parts for the drive shaft, etc.
Lancashireman Apr 29, 2017:
diese [...] > the aforementioned You haven't told us what comes in the previous sentence. Maybe you can get away with leaving out the noun here. Though I realise you want to settle this once and for all.

Proposed translations

+1
4 hrs

ranges

"At this point, these (product/component) ranges have not yet been assigned to a specific construction segment."

http://www.dornbach.com/de/baulexikon/baulos.html
Peer comment(s):
agree barbarameyer : Makes sense in the asker's context ["What they're talking about is a range of products/components to be delivered by a certain company."]
6 days
Thanks, Barbara!
Something went wrong...
1 day 1 hr

scope (of delivery)

"Umfang" ist Singular. Kenne ich nicht im Plural.

Suche nach „Umfänge“
http://www.duden.de/suchen/dudenonline/Umfänge

Grammatik
Singular Plural
Nominativ der Umfang die Umfänge
Genitiv des Umfanges, Umfangs der Umfänge
Dativ dem Umfang den Umfängen
Akkusativ den Umfang die Umfänge
http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Umfang

Als deutscher Ingenieur mit langjähriger Berufserfahrung bin ich überrascht, „Umfang“ im Plural zu lesen. Aber grammatikalisch ist das möglich.

Man spricht normalerweise vom Umfang der Arbeit(en) = Arbeitsumfang, aber nicht von Umfängen der Arbeit(en). Halte ich für einen schlechten Stil.

Herrenknecht Formwork liefert für das Baulos KAT3 umfangreiches Schalungs- und Handling-Equipment für die reibungslose Produktion von rund 45.000 Präzisions-Tübbingen. Mit ihnen wird die 12 Kilometer lange Nordröhre auf dem westlichen Abschnitt ausgekleidet. Die ARGE PTS (MABA und PORR) produziert und liefert die Segmente für den Tunnelvortrieb mit einer Multi-Mode-TBM von Herrenknecht.
Lieferumfang:
• 6 Satz Schalungen + Invertsegmente
• Tübbingumlaufanlage mit Betoniereinrichtung, Härtetunnel, Heizungssystem
• 2 Vakuumhebegeräte (1 x mit 90°-Kippfunktion)
• Ausfahrlinie mit 4 Scherenhubtischen, Schienensystem, Kipptisch (2x90°), Dichtungspressrahmen, Stahlkonstruktion mit Monorail und Hubwerken
http://www.herrenknecht-formwork.com/de/projekte/projektdeta...

wie man sieht, spricht der Unternehmer nicht von seinen „Lieferumfängen“, sondern von seinem Lieferumfang, der als Oberbegriff für alle Lieferungen und Leistungen dient.

Peer comment(s):
neutral Michael Martin, MA : Whether plural or singular, "scope" would make for a really awkward fit in that sentence.
6 days
Something went wrong...
15 hrs

stock items

items for stock

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Note added at 6 days (2017-05-06 15:16:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The Daimler documents were translated by a non-native speaker.
Example:
For using the application you have to admit yourself to Data Quality Management (DQM). Login to Daimler Supplier Portal with your current valid Daimler Supplier-Access-data or follow the steps marked yellow.

Of course they would translate 'Umfänge' as 'scopes'.
Note from asker:
I thank you very much for your contribution. Your answer very well be the best, objectively speaking. Unfortunately if 'scope' or even 'scopes' is so established at Daimler, it may be necessary to use it even if it is wrong, and your suggestion better. I've frequently run into these situations, particularly with Daimler. "You can't fight city hall".
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