Quotations based on number of words... and fuzzy matches / 100% matches Thread poster: Martin Wenzel
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I have just received a Word document created in Trados...
I was supposed to quote on this...
But, I find that with all these matches, the time involved for checking is completely ignored.
Are the 100% Trados matches really the gospel truth and I now don't need to check them anymore?
So, do I simply turn off my critical mind, even though many years of experience have taught me if something sounds fishy, you need to go back and check and... See more I have just received a Word document created in Trados...
I was supposed to quote on this...
But, I find that with all these matches, the time involved for checking is completely ignored.
Are the 100% Trados matches really the gospel truth and I now don't need to check them anymore?
So, do I simply turn off my critical mind, even though many years of experience have taught me if something sounds fishy, you need to go back and check and double check, both in the original and the translation because something will be wrong usually...
Again, I find CAT tools are biting their own tails...and can be more of a hindrance than a help...
Going by fuzzy matches and 100% matches completely ignores the time needed for amending mistakes...
[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2007-07-11 05:24] ▲ Collapse
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| I agree: why are 100% matches not or less paid? | Jul 10, 2007 |
Though I am quite new on proz.com and just starting to get established as freelancer, I would like to agree to Martin.
Up to now, I am still giving my quotations with my fixed fee per word, ignoring if the clients lists up all fuzzy matches.
To my opinion, the fuzzy matches setting of the CAT should support the translation, but it does not substitute it.
Ok, I don't know how many jobs I did not get because of doing this..
but I cannot translate a t... See more Though I am quite new on proz.com and just starting to get established as freelancer, I would like to agree to Martin.
Up to now, I am still giving my quotations with my fixed fee per word, ignoring if the clients lists up all fuzzy matches.
To my opinion, the fuzzy matches setting of the CAT should support the translation, but it does not substitute it.
Ok, I don't know how many jobs I did not get because of doing this..
but I cannot translate a text by ignoring all fuzzy matches..
I have to read every single word of the text, so it takes me almost the same time as if I had to translate them.
And the calculaton of my rates should be based on the hourly or daily rate I need to cover all my espenses, so time is money!
If matches are less than 100% you even have to search for synonyms matching better...
I did some proofreading jobs where I hat to ignore all 100%matches, but even found that very difficult. I had at least to read them to understand the content of the text. But in this case I did not cross-check the translation so saved some time indeed.
So, I will try to go on ignoring rebates for fuzzy matches as long as I can. But it is like the "discount" job offers here on proz with prices of 0,2 or 0,3€ per word: there is always someone else doing the job!
Kind regars,
Sandra ▲ Collapse
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Nicole Schnell 
United States
Local time: 21:39
English to German
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In memoriam
Martin Wenzel wrote:
Again, I find CAT tools are biting their own tails...and can be more of a hindrance than a help...
Going by fuzzy matches and 100% matches completely ignores the time needed for amending mistakes...
And here we go again. Why do Trados-users have to give discounts? A translator spends several hundred Dollars on this software, spends weeks on learning this stuff, is now capable of faster delivery and excellent quality assurance regarding consistency, can provide TMs for free, just to get paid less!
To top it, Martin (as an example) had to spend his own time on figuring out how he can save money for the client.
I actually had a client who apologized for not deducting those repetitions in the PO (!).
I think we have all gone nuts.
If a cab driver would invest in a better car to be able to bring his customers from point A to point B much faster, he would still charge by the mile.
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Ask your client whether you should be checking the 100% matches or not. If the client wants them checked, then charge. If not, then ignore the 100% matches and let the client deal with any discrepancies between the unchecked matches and the work you have carried out.
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| That's the whole point | Jul 10, 2007 |
Nicole Schnell wrote:
If a cab driver would invest in a better car to be able to bring his customers from point A to point B much faster, he would still charge by the mile.
Can you imagine that?
A cab passenger demands a cab with automatic transmission, though the driver will do the driving, as usual.
The passenger hops in, draws one of those clicking counters from his pocket, and with a keen ear counts each gear shift the automatic transmission does. After he has reached his destination, he tells the driver: "As you were spared from the effort of stepping on the clutch pedal and using the stickshift 187 times, multiplying by 5¢ each, I'll deduct $ 9.35 from the fare I should pay you. I know they cost more to buy, but I just love these automatic transmissions, since they save me a lot of money."
Some nutty reasoning!
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| Not this old story again... | Jul 11, 2007 |
It's very simple, really:
With matches and repetitions, you don't have to "reinvent the wheel" every time an already translated sentence comes up. So why should your clients pay the same fee for that as they do for regular, previously untranslated segments?
Now, giving those matches away for free doesn't strike me as a good idea - you still have to take at least another glance at them to make sure they're okay in the present co... See more It's very simple, really:
With matches and repetitions, you don't have to "reinvent the wheel" every time an already translated sentence comes up. So why should your clients pay the same fee for that as they do for regular, previously untranslated segments?
Now, giving those matches away for free doesn't strike me as a good idea - you still have to take at least another glance at them to make sure they're okay in the present context. And sure, you bought the software and paid for training which means you'd end up with a negative ROI by investing CAT tools and then providing matches free of charge. Therefore, I'm all for paying something to the translator for matches.
How much discount to grant for which type of match (match percentage levels) is obviously subject to your negotiation skills.
The cab example sounds nice, but here's another one for you:
Why is it that DHL can offer cheaper shipping on most things, to most destinations than any small shipping company? After all, they operate horrenously expensive warehouses and have a whole fleet of airplanes and ground vehicles to operate and maintain. The answer is the same as with discounts for matches: Because their equipment allows them to operate more efficiently. So, they decided to share this benefit with their customers to attract more business instead of just pocketing their savings and, in turn, they generate more revenue. And it actually works! Strange, huh?
Benjamin ▲ Collapse
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Akoma
English to Russian
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| Tectranslate's comparison with DHL is completely off the mark | Jul 11, 2007 |
Here we have an ARTISAN of sorts (translator), so it strikes me as completely inappropriate to compare an artisan with a corporation. DHL can hire as many workers as it wishes, while a translator has only himself (let's assume the translator doesn't subcontract) and 24 hours in a day.
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| Maybe you'll want to read ALL of the postings first... | Jul 11, 2007 |
Akoma wrote:
Here we have an ARTISAN of sorts (translator), so it strikes me as completely inappropriate to compare an artisan with a corporation. DHL can hire as many workers as it wishes, while a translator has only himself (let's assume the translator doesn't subcontract) and 24 hours in a day.
Uh-huh, an artisan just like a cab driver, say? I was replying to an analogy put up by others.
Before this gets out of hand, though, I will readily acknowledge that there are distinct differences and I think it would be pointless to try and analyze them to death.
It would be much more interesting if you had anything meaningful to say on the idea that working more efficiently and passing on the savings (in part) to one's clients is a perfectly legitimate and proven way of gaining a competitive edge and in turn generating more income.
I just can't stand all this hate speech against the evil agencies with their outrageous demands anymore.
Benjamin
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Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 21:39
English to German
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In memoriam | @tectranslate: Ah, DHL, cab drivers, investment and profit. | Jul 12, 2007 |
1.) DHL didn't become successful because their airplanes fly faster. They had an excellent logistics and marketing concept.
2.) They are struggling and rely on additional services such as financial services.
Hey, when you bought new computers the last time for a ton of money, set up a serious computer network and such, purchased the fastest printer, switched from DSL to Broadband, got a server, purchased Indesign, QuarkXPress, Photoshop, etc., what did you do?
Low... See more 1.) DHL didn't become successful because their airplanes fly faster. They had an excellent logistics and marketing concept.
2.) They are struggling and rely on additional services such as financial services.
Hey, when you bought new computers the last time for a ton of money, set up a serious computer network and such, purchased the fastest printer, switched from DSL to Broadband, got a server, purchased Indesign, QuarkXPress, Photoshop, etc., what did you do?
Lower your rates because everything goes so much faster?
Hahahaha!
My apologies...
Investments are supposed to create profit, not to be passed on to the client as savings.
Oh well, I am only a dumb marketing person and a dumb business owner. How could I possibly know.
 )))
[Edited at 2007-07-12 17:23]
[Edited at 2007-07-12 18:50] ▲ Collapse
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Nicole Schnell wrote:
Hey, when you bought new computers the last time for a ton of money, set up a serious computer network and such, purchased the fastest printer, switched from DSL to Broadband, got a server, purchased Indesign, QuarkXPress, Photoshop, etc., what did you do?
I invested in computers, broadband access, software etc. so I could be competitive, which definitely includes competitive pricing. If I were to work with pen & paper, ruler and paper dictionaries only, I couldn't keep up with the market in terms of pricing because my efficiency would be too low.
Investments are supposed to create profit, not to be passed on to the client as savings.
You did notice, of course, that I am opposed to giving matches away for free, right?
Another consideration:
How about the idea that the word price is meant to compensate the translator for his work actually translating, not just pushing a button and briefly glancing at the screen, then pushing the button again? What's wrong with billing the mere button-pushing (with the occasional correction in between) at a lower price?
I just noticed that there is another current forum topic going on about this, with more people participating - some very interesting views there: http://www.proz.com/topic/78257
B
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tectranslate wrote: The cab example sounds nice, but here's another one for you: Why is it that DHL can offer cheaper shipping on most things, to most destinations than any small shipping company? After all, they operate horrenously expensive warehouses and have a whole fleet of airplanes and ground vehicles to operate and maintain. The answer is the same as with discounts for matches: Because their equipment allows them to operate more efficiently. So, they decided to share this benefit with their customers to attract more business instead of just pocketing their savings and, in turn, they generate more revenue. And it actually works! Strange, huh? Benjamin
Not so strange at all.
The idea dawned upon me many years ago, actually in 1980, from what an American top-flight MIS (now IT) professional told me. He had "computerized" some 400 companies in the USA... with Apple II machines, which were state-of-the-art then. He told me:
It takes one million dollars to develop a computer processor, and another million dollars to manufacture all these chips that will be made until it becomes obsolete."
Most of the old-timers among us know (and probably had) a 386DX-40 MHz computer. A friend managed to buy a 386DX-55 MHz computer for peanuts. (Anyone else ever saw one of these?) The point is that when it was launched, the 486 was already out, so this 55-thing was a marketwise stillborn.
DHL offers low prices to attract enough business to choke 737 jets full with cargo. It becomes cheaper and faster (thus value-added) that feeding a million ponies (and their riders) to take all that on horseback.
If the TMs contained for sure all matches, there could be a significant reduction in cost. Back in 1977-79 I translated some 20-30 manuals where the text was actually one and the same. All that changed from one to another was part numbers, measurements, and illustrations. But the working tool then was the electric typewriter...
If a translator will be working on the second or later almost- identical job from head to toe, a discount should apply. But if they will be working with someone else's TM, or no previous TM at all, adequate compensation should be paid to manually check if a 100% match in wording is actually a 100% in meaning.
Going back to the taxicab analogy, if you hire a cab by the month to drive your kids to school, the operator might give you a discount for guaranteed business, but not for travelling on a familiar road every time.
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