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sur le pas de temps

Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

L\'état délivré sur cette formalité était négatif

English translation:

The post-completion search issued was clear with regards to the seller

Added to glossary by Eoghan McMonagle
Dec 10, 2014 20:59
9 yrs ago
8 viewers *
French term

L'état délivré sur cette formalité était négatif

French to English Law/Patents Real Estate
"L'état délivré sur cette formalité était négatif du chef du vendeur."

The context is a deed of conveyance under the ownership title section. The line above was "This acquisition took place by means of the payment, in full and in cash, of the principle price one hundred and thirty-five thousand Euros (€135,000), at the signing of the deed.
A certified copy of this deed was published in the Land Registry of xxx , on xxx , in Volume xxx, number xxx.

I have no idea what this is talking about. I assume "chef du vendeur" just means "vendor". But the rest...? Can anyone have a go at the translation?
Proposed translations (English)
4 +2 (BrE) The formal pre-completion search issued was a clear one (as regards the seller)

Discussion

Adrian MM. (X) Dec 11, 2014:
@ Tim 06 OK. The formal search issued between completion and registration of the conveyance.
Tim Webb Dec 11, 2014:
Etat sur formalité - post-completion search There is always a risk of a charge being registered against a property just before or after the sale has been signed, which is why a new mortgage search is done when the deed of sale is registered. See http://www.droitissimo.com/forum/professions-reglementees/pr...
Jennifer Levey Dec 11, 2014:
@Asker Your mention of the section heading "Prise en charge d'emprunt" (which describes the buyer assuming liability for the mortgage, etc., as you have described.)" is new context which should have been posted with the original question, quite precisely because that is NOT what my previous posts were decribing or referring to.
The order of presentation still makes no sense - it says the property has been sold and paid for in full before checking whether the seller is free to sell it, or determining whether any existing mortgage is transferrable to the buyer.
Tony M Dec 11, 2014:
@ Robin "cette formalité" does indeed refer to "la publication au service de la publicité foncière"

The result of notifying them of the sale results in the return of a 'statement' or 'report' (which is what this 'état' is), which confirms that the Seller doesn't / didn't have a mortgage outstanding on the property, or the presence of any other liens of any kind.
Eoghan McMonagle (asker) Dec 11, 2014:
Robin, that part actually comes AFTER, exactly as you describe it. The sections, in their order are: "Origine de propriété" (which has the sentence I am having problems with), then "Jouissance divise", "Evaluation" and THEN "Prise en charge d'emprunt" (which describes the buyer assuming liability for the mortgage, etc., as you have described.) Strange, right? Argh, I hated Property Law at uni and I still hate it to this day.
Jennifer Levey Dec 11, 2014:
Apologies for using some Spanish here :) I suggest you make sure that there's nothing missing from your ST. Maybe something has dropped off the bottom of a photocopy or a scan? I would have expected the phrase of your question to appear before the sentence about payment, not after.

I am pretty sure the 'formality' in question is what is known here in Chile as a "Certificado de Hipotecas, Gravámenes y Prohibiciones (GP)" - i.e. a certificate from the Real Estate Registrar (in Chile: Conservador de Bienes Raíces) saying that the property that is being sold is not subject to any restrictions 'du chef du vendeur' - i.e. the vendor does not have a mortgage on the property or other impediments to the sale of the property (seizure of the property by the courts, expropriation pending, etc.).

See, for example:

Certificado de Hipotecas, Gravámenes y Prohibiciones (GP ...
https://www.conservador.cl/portal/gpTranslate this page
Certificado de Hipotecas, Gravámenes y Prohibiciones (GP). i. Es un certificado que incluye los gravámenes que afectan a un bien raíz como hipotecas, ...
Eoghan McMonagle (asker) Dec 11, 2014:
ST is France and target reader is a UK solicitor and his/her client. The only "formalité" that I can think this may be referring to is when it says "Une copie authentique de cet acte a été publiée..." But I agree with you, I don't see how the two correspond.
Jennifer Levey Dec 11, 2014:
@Asker What country is the ST from? And are your target readers in the UK? (if not, where?).

I see nothing in "The line above", which you have now quoted, that could possibly correspond to "cette formalité" ("this formality"). What do you think "cette formalité" refers back to?
Eoghan McMonagle (asker) Dec 11, 2014:
I have done a bit of research and this is what I have come up with for the sentence in question:

"The original issued for this formality was negative for the vendor."

I don't like it at all.
I have seen in another Proz forum that "l'état" can mean an original document and "chef de" can mean "in favour of" or "for" in more simple terms. But as I say, I am really not loving my attempt.
So if anyone would like to have a go at improving it (including my translation of the text coming before it, which I am no longer "certain is accurate" after reading your comments), I would really appreciate it. Thanks in advance for your help. :D
Eoghan McMonagle (asker) Dec 11, 2014:
"Cette acquisition a eu lieu moyennant le prix principal de cent trent-cinq mille euros, payé comptant et quittance à l'acte.
Une copie authentique de cet act a été publiée au service de la publicité foncière de xxxx le xxxxx, volume xxxx, numéro xxx."
Eoghan McMonagle (asker) Dec 11, 2014:
Guys, no need to be mean, some constructive criticism would be nice. I meant I have no idea what the sentence I have requested help with means, not with the translation. Would you mind pointing out what the errors are that you have immediately noticed?
I will post the original text in a separate post as I don't have enough characters here. Just give me a sec. :)
Jennifer Levey Dec 10, 2014:
@Asker Tony is absolutely right. Your translation of “The line above” is seriously faulty. Also, “chef du vendeur” does not ‘just’ mean “vendeur”.

Jane’s quote in French, headed “2.1. CERTIFICAT DE DÉPÔT NÉGATIF”, is no doubt very relevant to your question. And, as you’re a “registered lawyer” it should be amply sufficient to point you in the right direction.
Tony M Dec 10, 2014:
@ Asker The fact that you admit you "have no idea what this is talking about." casts some doubt on the claimed accuracy of your preceding translation (which I can see at once contains at least some errors); hence it would as ever be immensely productive to see the phrase correctly in its source language context.
Eoghan McMonagle (asker) Dec 10, 2014:
Thanks Jane. If only the source text was in Spanish, it would be a lot easier. I am a registered lawyer here. ;) Unfortunately that discussion doesn't provide a full translation of the sentence, which is what I need. :(
Eoghan McMonagle (asker) Dec 10, 2014:
Hi Tony M,

The source text is in a pdf of which I can't copy and paste, but I have provided the translation, which I am certain is accurate. Is there any reason you need the source text?
Jane Phillips Dec 10, 2014:
Assuming your Spanish is better than mine have a look at this:</p></p>http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_spanish/construction_civ...

And I also found this:</p></p>

2.1. CERTIFICAT DE DÉPÔT NÉGATIF
La délivrance par le conservateur des hypothèques d'un certificat de dépôt négatif ou comportant la seule
référence à la formalité de l'acte de vente qui accompagne la demande de renseignements signifie
qu'aucune formalité n'est intervenue ou n'est en attente de publication au fichier immobilier
(pour la période de mise à jour du fichier jusqu'au terme de la période de certification indiquée dans la
demande de renseignements).
Tony M Dec 10, 2014:
@ Asker Please could you give us the surrounding text in the source language itself!

Proposed translations

+2
11 hrs
French term (edited): L'état délivré sur cette formalité était négatif (du chef du vendeur)
Selected

(BrE) The formal pre-completion search issued was a clear one (as regards the seller)

See Tony M's discussion entry in the web ref. and above as he clearly has a better idea of conveyancing practice than most commentators.

Bringing Latin America into the equation may not be very helpful.

du chef de > in the capacity of
vendeur > seller and buyer have been used in UK conveyancing since the E&W Law Society's 1990 Standard Conds. of Sale of Land.
Vendor & Purchaser went out as user-unfriendly but are still used.
BTW, it's not principle but principal sum.

Origine de propriété > root of title: remember the 3-part EN test for a good root in unregd. conveyancing. I assume everyone knows the difference between regd. and unregd. conveyancing.

1. at least 15 years old 2. no break in the chain of ownership and 3. contains nothing to cast doubt on the title.

Jouissance divise > split beneficial use if there is supposed to be an accent on the last e.

Evaluation > valuation of the property

Prise en charge d'emprunt > adoption so tak-over of (mortgage) of loan

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2014-12-11 08:07:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

adoption so tak-over of (mortgage) of loan > so take-over of the (mortgage) loan


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2014-12-11 09:24:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

OK. Pre-registration formaility.
Reference:

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/real_estate/3515900-l%C3%A9tat_sur_cette_publication_%C3%A9tait_n%C3%A9gatif.html

Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M : You're a gent!
1 hr
Thanks. I have credited you with the searches idea.
agree B D Finch : Superbly comprehensive. Only slight niggle: "du chef de > in the capacity of" in your explanation, but agree with "as regards" in your header even if I have a personal pref. for "with regard to".
1 hr
OK and thanks.
neutral Tim Webb : It is not a pre-completion search but a post-completion search. http://www.notaires-franchecomte.fr/spip.php?article136
2 hrs
OK - post-completion and pre-reg. then.
neutral Jennifer Levey : Even with Asker's additional context (see disc. box) your answer is factually incorrect (as pointed out by Tim06).
3 hrs
I've already changed my answer from pre-completion to pre-registration and you will be familiar with the searches procedure from your UK conveyancing practice or US 'deeding' of land and escrow reg. experience.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "I'm glad to see this created an interesting discussion and debate. Thank you very much to everyone for your help. I really appreciate it."
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