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Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

ideelle Miteigentumsanteile

English translation:

notional shares of co-ownership -> commonhold interests (BE)/condominium units (AE)

Added to glossary by msherms
Nov 18, 2004 10:33
19 yrs ago
13 viewers *
German term

ideelle Miteigentumsanteile

German to English Law/Patents Law: Contract(s) Kaufvertrag
Hi,

This is another question from the Austrian sales contract. I am not sure about ideelle Miteigentumsanteile..... Should I translate that as "ideal co-ownership shares" or something with condominium units?? I am stuck and would appreciate any help.

Thanks. Here is the sentence:
Die Übergabe und Übernahme der ideellen Miteigentumsanteile erfolgt nachdem der Gesamtkaufpreis am Konto der Vertragsverfasserin XXXX eingelangt ist. Die Übergabe und Übernahme erfolgt mit allen Rechten und Pflichten, mit denen die Verkäuferin die gegenständliche Wohnung besessen hat.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +2 notional shares of co-ownership -> commonhold interests (BE)/condominium units (AE)
4 +1 non-material co-ownership shares
4 notional co-ownership shares
3 +1 intangible co-ownsership shares

Discussion

Non-ProZ.com Nov 20, 2004:
Thank you all so far and thanks Derek for your extra research. I will grade this tomorrow - I cannot decide yet what to choose. I want to ask some people, etc. Interestingly enough the first word I had considered was notional because I found it in the Hamblock/Wessels dictionary. Then, however, I was considering ideal and then I just asked! I really appreciate all of your efforts!!
Non-ProZ.com Nov 18, 2004:
Hi Margaret,

It is about condos. It is a contract between an Austrian company and two Swedish nationals
Margaret Marks Nov 18, 2004:
Is it about condominiums? What is being sold?

Proposed translations

+2
7 hrs
Selected

notional shares of co-ownership -> commonhold interests (BE)/condominium units (AE)

These rights are being handed over or vested - suggesting outwardly a Commonhold or Condo in a house or block of flats.

Inwardly between the co-buyers, a joint tenancy might be created: a state of concurrent ownership by two or more persons who are treated as a single unit, no one person having a sep. share.

Miteigentum -> Eigentum mehrerer Personen an einer Sache, wobei jeder eine Quote hat (ideeller Anteil): Österr. RechtsWB, Juridica Verlag.

'... zB 1/2, 1/10, 2/5. Mit der Bezeichnung „ideeller“ Anteil wird ausgedrückt, dass einem einzelnen Miteigentümer an und für sich kein realer Teil gehört. ...'
Reference:

www.meingrundstueck.at/.../___Wohnung/ Was-Wohnungseigentum/Was-Mieteigentum/was-mieteigentum.html

Peer comment(s):
agree Margaret Marks : Notional is excellent, but is it a shared flat?
32 mins
Thanks. I looked at our own Kaufvertrag/contract of sale for our Vienna flat. It referred to 'Ehegattenwohnungseigentum' i.e. joint tenancy inwards - and not ideelle MA. This made me think this was a commonhold scene outwardly, no matter how many buyers.
agree Derek Gill Franßen : Yes, "notional shares in co-ownership" or "ideal shares in co-ownership" (IMHO). :-)
1 day 16 hrs
I'm unsure 'ideal shares' would be readily intelligible to an Eng.-speaking conveyancer or land lawyer.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you so much to all of you. After reading what Margaret Marks wrote, I think this is the best answer."
+1
22 mins

non-material co-ownership shares

The German term "ideell" is distinct from "ideal". The one means "in idea" as in "non-physical", the other means "ideal" as in "optimal" or "most suitable"
Peer comment(s):
agree Dr. Fred Thomson
4 hrs
Something went wrong...
8 hrs

notional co-ownership shares

I am just agreeing with "Counsel", following the asker's reply. It sounds as if two people jointly own or are buying a house or flat and their shares are undivided - they jointly own the whole - but for the purpose of payment they each have an imaginary share of half each - but they can't just each sell their half to someone else if they want, i.e. they don't have actual shares.
Something went wrong...
+1
31 mins

intangible co-ownsership shares

Perhaps... :-)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 23 hrs 53 mins (2004-11-20 10:27:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I did a little more research and I think that \"ideal shares in co-ownership\" is used, not only in America, but also in the UK and in Canada (see: http://socserv2.socsci.mcmaster.ca/~econ/ugcm/3ll3/misc/laps... AND http://www.findaproperty.co.uk/cgi-bin/agent.pl?agentid=4904... AND ESPECIALLY ARTICLE 13 PAGE 3 http://www.osce.org/documents/fry/2001/11/122_en.pdf). ;-)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 23 hrs 54 mins (2004-11-20 10:28:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Also see definition 5 here: http://www.hyperdictionary.com/search.aspx?define=ideal
Peer comment(s):
agree Dr. Fred Thomson
4 hrs
Thank you Fred. I've edited my answer somewhat...
Something went wrong...
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