Glossary entry (derived from question below)
English term or phrase:
retire
English answer:
active: to retire - passive: to be retired
Added to glossary by
Dan McCrosky (X)
Jun 11, 2002 16:22
22 yrs ago
English term
retire
Non-PRO
English
Other
"...when he retires."
Can this espression also cover a situation when a man IS RETIRED for some reason, i.e. he doesn't retire voluntarily or because of his age?
Can this espression also cover a situation when a man IS RETIRED for some reason, i.e. he doesn't retire voluntarily or because of his age?
Responses
5 +1 | Yes definitely! | Dan McCrosky (X) |
4 +7 | Don't think so | Andy Watkinson |
5 +5 | Yes. | Gabriel Aramburo Siegert |
4 +2 | No... | Arthur Borges |
4 +2 | subject OR object | Victoria Barkoff |
4 | Not common when talking about a person | Mads Grøftehauge |
5 -1 | nope | Catherine Bolton |
Responses
+1
1 hr
Selected
Yes definitely!
It is certainly possible, but it depends on what sort of person you\'re talking about. Apparently, the person must usually have been appointed the position.
Your expression \"to retire a judge\" draws over 100 Google hits:
http://www.google.de/search?q="retire a judge"&ie=UTF8&oe=UT...
\"to retire a minister\" : zero hits
\"to retire a lawyer : zero hits\"
\"to retire a doctor\" : four hits including:
www.doh.gov.uk/pub/docs/doh/consultation.pdf
\"to retire a public servant\" three plausible hits:
http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&q="retire ...
\"to retire a public official\" : zero hits
\"to retire an officer\" : 70 mostly military pertinent hits:
http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&q="retire ...
\"to retire a corporate officer\" : zero hits
\"to retire a military officer\" : zero hits
\"to retire a cabinet minister\" : zero hits
\"to retire a cabinet secretary\" : zero hits
\"to retire a sheriff\" : zero hits
\"to retire a police officer\" : 12 hits:
http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&q="retire ...
\"to retire a congressman\" was used at least once by Robert Henry:
http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/libr/r/o/robhenry/robot.htm.ht...
but that may not be a particularly trustworthy source.
NODE – The New Oxford Dictionary of English shows \"retire\" with a person as the object: \"the Home Office retired him.\"
Merriam-Webster\'s Collegiate® Dictionary shows \"to cause to retire from one\'s position or occupation\".
HTH
Dan
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-06-11 20:01:47 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
First point: Sorry, I didn\'t pay enough attention to your short original context sentence \"...when he retires.\" I should have tried to clear that up. If a person has been retired or is to be retired, this means his superiors have decided they don\'t want her/him in that position any longer. Usually the person is nearing retirement age anyway. A 30-year-old person has probably never been retired. In my opinion, at that moment when a person is retired (passive) by his superiors, s/he also retires (active).
Second point: I should have not agreed so quickly and completely with Victoria because a person (subject) CAN theoretically retire another person (object). It is a combination of active voice AND a person as subject that means the retiring is voluntary (or at least when the person has reached retirement age) or s/he is voluntarily throwing somebody else out.
1. \"John is retiring tomorrow.\" means John wants to retire or has reached retirement age.
2. \"John is retiring Bill tomorrow\" means John is voluntarily throwing Bill out tomorrow.
The person, John, is the subject of both active sentences.
If the sentences are passive:
3. \"John is being retired tomorrow.\" means John does not want to retire and has probably not yet reached retirement age. He will have to retire tomorrow though.
4. \"Bill is being retired by John tomorrow\" still means John is voluntarily throwing Bill out tomorrow, just like sentence 2.
John is the subject of sentence 3 and Bill is the subject of sentence 4.
Whew!
Thrid point: There was a typo in the sentence:
\"Apparently, the person must usually have been appointed the position.\"
it should have read:
Apparently, the person must usually have been appointed to the position.
Dan
Your expression \"to retire a judge\" draws over 100 Google hits:
http://www.google.de/search?q="retire a judge"&ie=UTF8&oe=UT...
\"to retire a minister\" : zero hits
\"to retire a lawyer : zero hits\"
\"to retire a doctor\" : four hits including:
www.doh.gov.uk/pub/docs/doh/consultation.pdf
\"to retire a public servant\" three plausible hits:
http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&q="retire ...
\"to retire a public official\" : zero hits
\"to retire an officer\" : 70 mostly military pertinent hits:
http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&q="retire ...
\"to retire a corporate officer\" : zero hits
\"to retire a military officer\" : zero hits
\"to retire a cabinet minister\" : zero hits
\"to retire a cabinet secretary\" : zero hits
\"to retire a sheriff\" : zero hits
\"to retire a police officer\" : 12 hits:
http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&q="retire ...
\"to retire a congressman\" was used at least once by Robert Henry:
http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/libr/r/o/robhenry/robot.htm.ht...
but that may not be a particularly trustworthy source.
NODE – The New Oxford Dictionary of English shows \"retire\" with a person as the object: \"the Home Office retired him.\"
Merriam-Webster\'s Collegiate® Dictionary shows \"to cause to retire from one\'s position or occupation\".
HTH
Dan
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-06-11 20:01:47 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
First point: Sorry, I didn\'t pay enough attention to your short original context sentence \"...when he retires.\" I should have tried to clear that up. If a person has been retired or is to be retired, this means his superiors have decided they don\'t want her/him in that position any longer. Usually the person is nearing retirement age anyway. A 30-year-old person has probably never been retired. In my opinion, at that moment when a person is retired (passive) by his superiors, s/he also retires (active).
Second point: I should have not agreed so quickly and completely with Victoria because a person (subject) CAN theoretically retire another person (object). It is a combination of active voice AND a person as subject that means the retiring is voluntary (or at least when the person has reached retirement age) or s/he is voluntarily throwing somebody else out.
1. \"John is retiring tomorrow.\" means John wants to retire or has reached retirement age.
2. \"John is retiring Bill tomorrow\" means John is voluntarily throwing Bill out tomorrow.
The person, John, is the subject of both active sentences.
If the sentences are passive:
3. \"John is being retired tomorrow.\" means John does not want to retire and has probably not yet reached retirement age. He will have to retire tomorrow though.
4. \"Bill is being retired by John tomorrow\" still means John is voluntarily throwing Bill out tomorrow, just like sentence 2.
John is the subject of sentence 3 and Bill is the subject of sentence 4.
Whew!
Thrid point: There was a typo in the sentence:
\"Apparently, the person must usually have been appointed the position.\"
it should have read:
Apparently, the person must usually have been appointed to the position.
Dan
Peer comment(s):
agree |
John Kinory (X)
: Excellent!
22 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you very much. I'm still not quite sure if one can simply say "...when he retires" instead of "...when he retires or is retired" but you've been really helpful."
+7
4 mins
Don't think so
I don't think you can say that XXX WAS RETIRED from his job.
He was dismissed (if involuntarily)
He was made redundant (involuntarily)
He stood/stepped down (voluntarily, depending on the post)
Peer comment(s):
agree |
RHELLER
: also laid off, given a "pink slip", downsized
4 mins
|
Good examples
|
|
agree |
Betty Revelioti
5 mins
|
Thanks
|
|
agree |
Sarah Ponting
11 mins
|
Thanks Sarah
|
|
agree |
Gloria Towle
: eso es.
21 mins
|
agree |
Sam D (X)
: People only use it (orally/incorrectly) in an ironic way.
55 mins
|
agree |
Antonio Camangi
: RETIRE only has a intransitive value.
1 hr
|
agree |
jerrie
: you can take early retirement/voluntary retirement, but you are not retired by someone..
1 hr
|
agree |
Enza Longo
1 hr
|
disagree |
John Kinory (X)
: 'To retire someone' is fine in BE.
23 hrs
|
+2
7 mins
No...
I'd maybe use it with things, as in: the tanks were retired from service, i.e. as a synonym for decommissioned. But I'd never do that to a biped.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Betty Revelioti
2 mins
|
agree |
Gabriel Aramburo Siegert
22 mins
|
agree |
Sam D (X)
52 mins
|
disagree |
John Kinory (X)
: 'To retire someone' is fine in BE.
23 hrs
|
Oops, the yank in me didn't know that. Tks.
|
16 mins
Not common when talking about a person
It can mean retracted or pulled out of service when talking about a plan, an animal, or an object. If you used it about a person you would be objectifying that person (or saying that s/he was objectified by whoever retired him or her.)
Google references:
space. Having exceeded both its technology objectives and its science
objectives, the spacecraft was retired in December 2001. The ...
nmp.jpl.nasa.gov/ds1/gen/mission.html
... He would occasionally throw off his rider, and was retired to pasture in 1969. ... Trotter
became a mascot in 1957, and was retired to pasture in 1972. ...
www.usma.edu/dcfa/activity/Veterinary/listings.htm
... Ahoy! The Homepage Finder was retired from service in 2000 and the code is not
available. ... Shopbot. The Shopbot Research Prototype was retired in 1998. ...
www.cs.washington.edu/research/projects/ WebWare1/www/softbots/projects.html
... If the rope was retired because it was cut or otherwise damaged in an event, or if
it was retired because it was used beyond your team's normal maximum working ...
www.xmission.com/~tmoyer/testing/used_rope.html
Google references:
space. Having exceeded both its technology objectives and its science
objectives, the spacecraft was retired in December 2001. The ...
nmp.jpl.nasa.gov/ds1/gen/mission.html
... He would occasionally throw off his rider, and was retired to pasture in 1969. ... Trotter
became a mascot in 1957, and was retired to pasture in 1972. ...
www.usma.edu/dcfa/activity/Veterinary/listings.htm
... Ahoy! The Homepage Finder was retired from service in 2000 and the code is not
available. ... Shopbot. The Shopbot Research Prototype was retired in 1998. ...
www.cs.washington.edu/research/projects/ WebWare1/www/softbots/projects.html
... If the rope was retired because it was cut or otherwise damaged in an event, or if
it was retired because it was used beyond your team's normal maximum working ...
www.xmission.com/~tmoyer/testing/used_rope.html
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Sam D (X)
: Except ironically
44 mins
|
disagree |
John Kinory (X)
: 'To retire someone' is fine in BE.
23 hrs
|
+5
32 mins
Yes.
Take this example from CAMBRIDGE:
retire (STOP WORKING)
verb [I/T]
to leave your job or stop working because of having reached a particular age or because of ill health, or to cause (someone or something) to stop being employed or used
He worked in television after retiring from baseball.
I'll be retiring soon.
The aircraft was retired in 1990.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-06-12 16:27:49 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
John, I can hardly handle this software as of now. \"Absent minded\". There are two things, though: I hope I will be a little bit more proficient in the future and, second, during my whole life I\'ve been extremily good at making mistakes! By the way, I visited your profile and it clearly shows your level! Congratulations.
retire (STOP WORKING)
verb [I/T]
to leave your job or stop working because of having reached a particular age or because of ill health, or to cause (someone or something) to stop being employed or used
He worked in television after retiring from baseball.
I'll be retiring soon.
The aircraft was retired in 1990.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-06-12 16:27:49 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
John, I can hardly handle this software as of now. \"Absent minded\". There are two things, though: I hope I will be a little bit more proficient in the future and, second, during my whole life I\'ve been extremily good at making mistakes! By the way, I visited your profile and it clearly shows your level! Congratulations.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Magda Dziadosz
: absolutely. :)
8 mins
|
Nice talking to a nice girl from Poland... You are mi first from that country since I am here. Good day (afternoon, night?) to you... Anyway...
|
|
agree |
Oso (X)
: Un saludo cordial compa ¶:^)
54 mins
|
Lo mismo, mano.
|
|
agree |
Paul Mably (X)
: Collins Dict: retire (mainly intr.) 1.(also tr.) to give up or to cause (a person) to give up his work, esp. on reaching pensionable age.
1 hr
|
agree |
Pawel Smal
: Agree with you, disability is also a form of retirement
7 hrs
|
agree |
John Kinory (X)
: So why did you agree with Arthur? :-)
23 hrs
|
Mistake, mistake... Sorry.
|
-1
1 hr
nope
"When he retires" points to a decision on the part of the subject (he) to retire. The passive form you cite in your additional comment means that "he" is on the receiving end and didn't decide this himself.
If the subject is on the receiving end and has been asked to retire, e.g. for the reasons cited in the case of the judge (disability -- the guy can't perform the job), then you'd use the passive form.
"When he retires" simply points to the time in this guy's life when he DECIDES (but is not forced) to retire.
If the subject is on the receiving end and has been asked to retire, e.g. for the reasons cited in the case of the judge (disability -- the guy can't perform the job), then you'd use the passive form.
"When he retires" simply points to the time in this guy's life when he DECIDES (but is not forced) to retire.
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
John Kinory (X)
: 'To retire someone' is fine in BE.
21 hrs
|
+2
2 hrs
subject OR object
When a person is the subject of the verb "retire", the action is always voluntary.
When the person is the object of the verb (i.e. acted upon rather than acting) , the retirement is not voluntary.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Dan McCrosky (X)
14 mins
|
agree |
John Kinory (X)
20 hrs
|
Discussion
"...the supreme court may retire a judge for disability that seriously interferes with the performance of his duties..."
http://www.azleg.state.az.us/const/6.1/4.htm