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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

prime d’émeraude

English translation:

chromium jadeite

Added to glossary by liz askew
Jan 4 09:12
4 mos ago
37 viewers *
French term

prime d’émeraude

French to English Science Geology Gemstones
Hello

The name given to an ersatz of (in this case) emerald - actually coloured crystal.

Thank you.
Proposed translations (English)
3 chromium jadeite
3 [see below]
References
voir
Prime d’émeraude
Change log

Feb 9, 2024 09:25: liz askew Created KOG entry

Discussion

Sandra Petch (asker) Jan 14:
In praise of prase prime
Étymologie

(Nom 4) Peut être une déformation de prisme, ou de prase qui ressemble à l'émeraude.

prase \pʁaz\ féminin

(Minéralogie) Variété de quartz qui se caractérise par sa couleur verte due à la présence d'actinote. La prase, ou fausse émeraude, dont la couleur ressemble au vert du poireau. — (Ch. Blanc, Gramm. arts dessin, 1876)

Britannica
prase, translucent, leek-green variety of the silica mineral chalcedony (q.v.). Coloured by hornblende fibres and chlorite, it was used by the ancients for engravings. Prase has been found at numerous localities.
philgoddard Jan 4:
Something like 'emerald rock crystal'? Prime : cristal de roche coloré qui prend le nom de la pierre fine dont il se rapproche le plus
http://www.eurojade.fr/fr/?view=article&id=311:prime-emeraud...

Althea's references are excellent as always, but a non-technical term may be better depending on what kind of document this is, so please could we have the context.

Proposed translations

1 hr
Selected

chromium jadeite

https://www.ebay.co.uk/b/bn_86096420

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Note added at   1 godz. (2024-01-04 10:50:01 GMT)
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or

chrome jadeite


https://www.mindat.org/min-9892.html

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Note added at   1 godz. (2024-01-04 10:57:14 GMT)
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http://www.nordskip.com/mawsitsit.html

The mono-mineral structure can also bear foreign minerals, and the way down to a rock i.e. an association of different minerals is open. The gemstone concerned is Maw Sit Sit, the material that is closely related to jadeite. It occurs in the classical jadeite area in Burma (Namshawa, 10 km north of Lonkin) and comprises a number of other minerals, such as chromite, kosmochlore, jadeite, Cr-jadeite, Cr-eckermanite, symplectite, zeolithes, albite and serpentine. The densities vary between 2.5 and 3.2 g/cm3, according to the variable mixture of minerals.

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Note added at 1 dzień   23 min (2024-01-05 09:35:05 GMT)
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Jadeite - Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History
si.edu
https://naturalhistory.si.edu › collections › geogallery
Translucent, emerald green jadeite, colored by chromium, is called ***imperial jade*** and is the most precious of all jade. Jade is valued for its color and also ...

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Note added at 1 dzień   24 min (2024-01-05 09:36:05 GMT)
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Coupe ronde couverte - Louvre Collections
louvre.fr
https://collections.louvre.fr › ark:
·
Translate this page
22 May 2023 — Matériau : chromojadéite (prime d'émeraude) Matériau : or. Places and dates. Date. Epoque / période : François I (1515-1547) (Occident ...

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Note added at 1 dzień   24 min (2024-01-05 09:36:55 GMT)
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see this picture;

https://ar.pinterest.com/pin/487585097130337616/?amp_client_...

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Note added at 3 dni   3 godz. (2024-01-07 12:46:00 GMT)
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https://www.google.com/search?q=The Louvre chrome jadeite&c...

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Note added at 3 dni   3 godz. (2024-01-07 12:49:11 GMT)
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Translucent, emerald green jadeite, colored by chromium, is called imperial jade and is the most precious of all jade. Jade is valued for its color and also its toughness, or resistance to breaking. The latter property has made jade useful historically for making weapons and tools, as well as for delicate carvings.

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Note added at 3 dni   3 godz. (2024-01-07 13:07:41 GMT)
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p.s.

The Louvre site "in English" just calls it "emerald".

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Note added at 3 dni   4 godz. (2024-01-07 13:21:49 GMT)
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ps.

Prime d'émeraude - En

sorry, no translation available

Prime : cristal de roche coloré qui prend le nom de la pierre fine dont il se rapproche le plus (dictionnaire de l'ameublement et de la décoration Henri Navard Maison Quantin Paris 1890).

L'attribution de prime d'émeraude est souvent mal appliquée à la fluorine, à la chrysoprase, au jade et même à la tourmaline verte. En 1791 l'appellation est remplacée par le nom de prase, quartz pénétré d'aiguilles vertes d'actinote qui lui donnent sa couleur et lui retirent de la transparence.

En ce qui concerne la coupe en prime d'émeraude conservée au Musée du Louvre, un examen gemmologique a permis de déterminer qu'il s'agissait de... matière vitreuse fabriquée !


Personally, I think you should do more research on this term.

I am now wondering if it has anything to do with "emerald", the stone, but rather the colour!


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Note added at 3 dni   4 godz. (2024-01-07 13:24:51 GMT)
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Actinolite: Mineral information, data and localities.
mindat.org
https://www.mindat.org › min-18
Actinolite quartz emerald green from www.mindat.org
An emerald green variety of actinolite, owing its colour to a faint chromium content. Relationship of Actinolite to other SpeciesHide.



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Note added at 3 dni   4 godz. (2024-01-07 13:26:07 GMT)
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Jade: Imperial green gem of the East (Part 3) - Deposits Mag
depositsmag.com
https://depositsmag.com › 2020/06/22 › jade-imperial-...
22 Jun 2020 — The influence of the chemical chromium on jadeite produces the emerald green jade called “Imperial Jade”. The presence of the element ...


frankly there is nothing definite, you might even have to contact Le Louvre!!
Peer comment(s):
neutral philgoddard : I wonder if this is one of several examples of 'primes'.
58 mins
hmm, the references provided would indicate this
Something went wrong...
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you very much. I have gone with "prase" (see refs.) "
1 day 7 hrs

[see below]

'Root Emerald Stone' - if genuine

In this question, it seems to refer to:
'imitation emerald (stone)'

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Note added at 1 day 7 hrs (2024-01-05 16:51:38 GMT)
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https://www.catawiki.com/en/l/24885225-ancient-egyptian-root...

Ancient Egyptian Root-Emerald-Stone heart scarab - 15×11×8 mm

In French, this stone is called "Prime d'Emeraude" and is very popular in antiquity, but is difficult to [...]

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Note added at 1 day 7 hrs (2024-01-05 16:54:20 GMT)
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https://www.etsy.com/market/root_emerald

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Note added at 1 day 7 hrs (2024-01-05 17:00:05 GMT)
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https://bijouterielanglois.com/en/lumina-14k-yellow-gold-ova...

The classic Lumina ring fits every budget! The 1.20ct grade A emerald may be replaced by a lab-grown emerald or an emerald imitation stone. The lab grown emerald is made from the same chemical elements as the emerald extracted from the earth while being environmentally friendly. The imitation emerald stone is a stone that has only a physical appearance in common with the natural version.

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Note added at 1 day 8 hrs (2024-01-05 17:15:55 GMT)
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As regards the specific substance, Green Tourmaline is a possibility (one of a few, I guess?)

https://rashiratanjaipur.net/Blog/which-is-the-best-alternat...

Green Tourmaline is one the best alternative to Emerald Gemstone. It is effective as Emerald Gemstone. If you are searching for Emerald but facing some budget issues or don’t want to invest much money in gemstone, you can buy Green Tourmaline. It is effective and budget-friendly also.

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Note added at 2 days 9 hrs (2024-01-06 18:30:54 GMT)
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https://www.amazon.co.uk/Silver-Pendant-Root-Emerald-Natural...

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Note added at 2 days 9 hrs (2024-01-06 18:33:36 GMT)
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https://books.google.pl/books?id=BDbdEAAAQBAJ&pg=PA39&lpg=PA...

'[...] root of emerald (in French "prime d'emeraude") [...]'

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Note added at 2 days 10 hrs (2024-01-06 19:29:55 GMT)
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Because this is about an 'ersatz' of emerald,

1) If we are supposed to give a truthful descriptive designation then:
'Imitation Emerald (Stone)',

2) If this is only for the sake of finding an English name for the product then:
'Root Emerald (Stone)' or 'Root of Emerald' (literal equivalents)
Note from asker:
Thank you for your help. I have seen "root of emerald" before (it was on the tip of my brain, reading your refs brought it to the front!).
Peer comment(s):
disagree liz askew : https://collections.louvre.fr/en/ark:/53355/cl010108107you need to look at French sites to see what this gemstone actually looks like:)
18 hrs
Thank you for such a good piece of advice you gave but, actually, changing from 'neutral' to 'disagreee' does not seem very professional. :)
agree philgoddard : 'Root of emerald' gets very few hits, and I think 'imitation emerald (stone)' is ambiguous because the significance of the brackets isn't clear. But I like 'emerald imitation stone'. You could also say 'emerald-colored semiprecious stone'.
1 day 5 hrs
Thank you. I added brackets to mean that 'stone' is optional (might be better without that word, possibly).
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

1 hr
Reference:

voir

https://www.eurojade.fr/fr/louvre-galerie-apollon
Entrée dans la collection de Louis XIV vers 1685. coupe ronde en prime d'émeraude (chromojadéite), jaspe, or émaillé et pierres gravées.

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Note added at   1 godz. (2024-01-04 10:46:02 GMT)
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some sort of jade

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Note added at   1 godz. (2024-01-04 10:48:17 GMT)
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chromium-bearing jadeite?
Something went wrong...
3 hrs
Reference:

Prime d’émeraude

"Les approximations furent légion jusqu’au xviiie siècle, où toute gemme rouge à rose avait par exemple tendance à être appelé rubis ; on complétait quelquefois ce terme par un autre, comme pour le rubis-balay (en réalité, un spinelle) ou le rubis du Brésil (une topaze rose). Dans le cas des gemmes vertes, on a ainsi créé des prétendues variétés d’émeraude (émeraude oriental e, prime d’émeraude…). Toute gemme bleue, quant à elle, de vait forcément faire allusion au saphir : par exemple l’indigolite, une variété bleue de l’elbaïte, un minéral de la famille de tourmalines, était appelée saphir du Brésil. Parmi les quelques exemples ayant semé la confusion, citons l’améthyste orientale (en fait du corindon), le saphir d’eau (cordiérite), et la turquoise de la nouvelle roche, aussi dite turquoise osseuse (ivoire fossile chauffé)."
https://www.dunod.com/sites/default/files/atoms/files/Feuill...

"Of semitransparent stone belonging to the silicious genus, several [erroneous suppositions of the crysal matrix] have been employed. The prase, one of the substances confounded by the ancients with the emerald, is a quartzy substance of the colour of leek, whence it has obtained its name. (See PRASE) Plasma and prasma of Italian, and other modern lapidaries are corruptions of prase; as is the word prisme and prime d'emeraude, which latter corruption has given rife to the erronous idea that this substance id the matrix in which the true emerald is generated.
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/The_Cyclopædia_Or_Uni...

"Prasius, in Natural History, the name of a gem much approaching to the nature of the emerald, but of a coarser green, and wanting its hardness, and having in its green a cast of yellow.
It is the stone which the ancients called prasites; and when a greater than ordinary admixture of yellow, the chrysoprasus, and of which the gem distinguished by later authors under the name of smaragdoprasus, is only one of the varieties.
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/The_Cyclopaedia/KN0St...

"There are many beautiful gems both in intaglio and cameo of engraved emerald, and there are many gems engraved in an emerald-green stone plasma (see page 41) called root of emerald (in French, prime d'emeraude) from its colour, but it is totally different in composition, being flinty...

Plasma is a gem stone about which there has been much discussion; it is flinty, translucent, of various shades of dull emerald or grass-green; it is seldom free from spots, either black dots, consisting of pyrites, or pale patches produced by porous places within the stone. Its habitat is obscure, as we meet with it only as found in the ruins in Rome or in antique gems, of which there exist a great number (as it was a favourite stone with the ancients), and these are amongst the most reliable antiques that we possess."
https://gemology.se/gill-library/gemjewelry/The_Science_of_G...

An entry from Proz Italian to French
https://www.proz.com/kudoz/italian-to-french/mining-minerals...

"Although gemologists know both plasma and green jasper as opaque microcrystalline quartz, historians and archaeologist apply the terms “prase”, “chrysoprase”, or “plasma” to translucent green microcrystalline quartz, and green jasper to the opaque variety. Because of the confusion over historical and gemological nomenclature, prase and plasma are avoided as gemological terms throughout this article. Gemologically, chrysoprase is a translucent nickel-bearing chalcedony of apple green color. The translucent green chalcedony varieties implied in collection catalogues and archaeological texts are distinguished throughout this essay by enclosing cited authors’ terms “prase”, “chrysoprase”, and “plasma” in quotation marks."
https://journals.openedition.org/pallas/10993

So, it looks likely that it's a variety of chalcedony


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Note added at 1 day 4 hrs (2024-01-05 13:20:22 GMT)
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Another source here quotes from an 1892 reference that states that prime d’émeraude is also called actinolite or jadeite.
https://www.yumpu.com/it/document/read/11483129/glossary-of-...

So the list of possible names continues - plasma, prase, chrysoprase chalcedony, actinolite, jadeite and fluorite, jade, and green tourmaline (see Phil's reference). From what I have read, many gemstone were incorrectly named and translated throughout the years from the times of the ancient Greeks until not too long ago, so unless your source material or customer can help put a finer point on it, it's unlikely the translation can name the exact material.
Note from asker:
Thank you, this was most helpful!
Peer comments on this reference comment:
neutral liz askew : yes, the problem we have here is that there are too many different interpretations, even onl line, Personally I would contact the Louvre if I could and refer to their picture of a vase in the Louis IV collection!
21 hrs
See my 2nd, 3rd &4th refs above. Re the colour, chalcedony comes in green too. I have added another reference re jadeite (which you mention) and actinolite, but there are so many different translations of prime d’émeraude to pinpoint an 'exact' term.
Something went wrong...
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