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que Pilotage_actionneur
activer la sortie si la remorque est présente
May 8, 2008 06:51
16 yrs ago
French term

la ville lumière

French to English Social Sciences Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc.
"Tombouctou finit par devenir la ville lumière du monde musulman et attirait les plus grands savants de ce monde musulman si prospère."

Not "light city". There is definitely a word for a city that attracts people. What about:

"...becoming the beacon of the Muslim world..."???

"beacon city" would sound weird.
Proposed translations (English)
3 +17 see below - la ville lumière is usually Paris
5 +1 city of enlightement
5 a flagship or a showcase city (or something similar)
4 la ville illuminée
4 luminary city
3 a beacon of light
3 the intellectual capital
2 the lighthouse city, the intellectual focus city, the intellectual glamour city
Change log

May 8, 2008 07:36: writeaway changed "Field (specific)" from "Economics" to "Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc."

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (1): writeaway

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Discussion

Anne de Freyman (X) May 8, 2008:
In the "intellectuals" sense, then unless I'm mistaken, the correct expression would be "ville des Lumières" with a capital L. I do think that the author of the source text meant it in the "intellectual" sense though!
Anne de Freyman (X) May 8, 2008:
Although it won't work in this translation, the origins of the expression "ville lumière" are explained here: http://www.ambafrance-eau.org/article.php3?id_article=701. It is all to do with street lighting and not intellectuals.
Nadia Ayoub May 8, 2008:
In Arabic we use the expression "باريس الشرق" literally "Paris of the East" usually referring to Lebanon, and sometimes Dubai. I think they're doing the same here.

Proposed translations

+17
1 min
Selected

see below - la ville lumière is usually Paris

Paris has many nicknames, but its most famous is "The City of Light" (La Ville-lumière), a name it owes both to its fame as a centre of education and ideas ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris

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Note added at 26 mins (2008-05-08 07:17:55 GMT)
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Yes but I think they are saying that T is the equivalent for the Muslim world.....
Note from asker:
No, definitely not, as the sentence states at the beginning, it refers to Timbuktu.
Peer comment(s):
agree Emma Drew : absolutely
0 min
agree Assimina Vavoula : you could use "the city of light".... I think...
16 mins
agree katsy
20 mins
agree ael
33 mins
agree Michael GREEN : Surely the point of the phrase is that Tombouktou became (must have been several centuries ago) the Paris of the muslim world (toutes proportions gardées ...) // Les grands esprits se rencontrent :)
33 mins
was just typing something to that effect
agree Clair Pickworth
1 hr
neutral cjohnstone : On s'est pas bien comprises ou moi seule ai pas pigé, ça ns arrive à ts!Alors excuses
2 hrs
agree Gustavo Silva
4 hrs
agree Tony M
4 hrs
agree Aude Sylvain :
4 hrs
agree Nadia Ayoub
7 hrs
agree writeaway : why fight city hall. it was the city of light of the Muslim world. I don't understand the problem
7 hrs
agree B D Finch
8 hrs
agree Jean-Claude Gouin : The City of Light ... of the Muslim world ...
9 hrs
agree Ewa Chojnowska
10 hrs
agree Anne de Freyman (X) : city of light of the Muslim world. Keep the ambiguity
10 hrs
agree sporran
16 hrs
agree Rebecca Lyne : Yes!
6 days
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
24 mins

la ville illuminée

I think the reference to 'Paris' is not valid, unless as a /jeu de mots/. I understand it as the city "where many 'illuminated' brains came to work"
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2 hrs

the lighthouse city, the intellectual focus city, the intellectual glamour city

My idea is to depart from Paris so called "ville" non pas de lumière mais "DES lumières" in fact in reference to intellectual activities at the time the phrase was coined... So to avoid any ambiguity unclear in English would try other things, lighthouse (a bit too much maybe), intellectual centre, reference city, focus of intellectual life... along those lines!!! Cannot understand my colleagues comments as to Paris, all very jolly, but does not give you the faintest clue for how to put it in English does it?...so I decide to have a go, for what is worth!!! If get better ideas in the day, will return!!!:) I often ponder over things and later find a better idea
Peer comment(s):
neutral CMJ_Trans (X) : what is wrong with the "City of Light" of the Muslim word ?
12 mins
not much, just was not up tot the mark i think and confess
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6 hrs

luminary city

Just as used in the report of the American City Council meeting below.
Reference:

http://www.burlington-wi.gov/Agn_Min/minutes/council/2006/cc_min2006_08_15.htm

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6 hrs

a flagship or a showcase city (or something similar)

hello all; pardon my swimming counter to the current on this one but I really do not see (in the source text) anything pointing to any comparison with Paris simply based on the words "ville" and "lumière". If I am not mistaken, paris is "La ville des lumières";

A ville lumière, probably a variation of a ville phare, is a different baguette altogether; When we designate something as a (chose) lumière, we mean it is simply a flagship (the most important of its kind).

Some checking will point to the expression "phare" which is right next door to lumière in this context as "flagship"

The way I see it, if we just keep a lid on the Paris-mania for just a few seconds we can acutally see that this is a city to emulate, a beaocn, and really, a flagship city or whateve ryou want to call it...

Reference:

http://granddictionaire.com/btml/fra/r_motclef/index1024_1.asp

http://granddictionaire.com/btml/fra/r_motclef/index1024_1.asp

Peer comment(s):
neutral writeaway : same comment as to Barbara Finch. by using the indefinite article you change/lose the impact of what the French source text is saying . and why 'interpret' city of light? It's not just Paris mania, but it is the register the author chose
1 hr
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1 hr

a beacon of light

I think that, unless you know that you readers will recognise it, the term "city of light" comparing the status of the city with Paris, can be dropped.

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Note added at 1 hr (2008-05-08 08:01:29 GMT)
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Or a "beacon city".

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Note added at 2 hrs (2008-05-08 09:50:33 GMT)
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I agree with Catherine's comments, though not with her proposed answers, which I find too modern. Of course, you could actually insert something like "the Paris of the Muslim world". A problem I see with this is that it could be seen as only appreciating Timbuctou from a non-Muslim European perspective. Granada was a major beacon city under Moorish rule and a centre of learning, so why use Paris as the comparison city?

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Note added at 8 hrs (2008-05-08 15:07:11 GMT)
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Reconsidering, I think that perhaps there is no good reason to change it from "the City of Light" of the Muslim world, so agree with CMJTrans.
Peer comment(s):
neutral writeaway : by using the indefinite article instead of the definite article you have changed the impact of what the source text is saying.
6 hrs
Oops! Quite right.
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11 hrs

the intellectual capital

If in this case they mean the city that is the most intellectual, then I would go for this simple translation.
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+1
6 days

city of enlightement

as if cultural, and other kinds of prosperity
Peer comment(s):
agree cjohnstone : good alternative
59 mins
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