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Patiens

English translation: patiens

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:Patiens
English translation:patiens
Entered by: Chris Rowson (X)

05:28 Mar 18, 2002
German to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary
German term or phrase: Patiens
Die engste Bindung an das Verb – im syntaktischen Sinne- hat der Subjektsnominativ, nicht weil er den Täter bezeichnet (das tut er keineswegs immer ; in passivischen Sätzen bezeichnet er z.B. das Patiens), sondern weil er durch die Kongruenzbezeichnung strukturell mit dem finiten Verb verbunden ist.

A sentence from a grammar book.
Deb Phillips (X)
patiens
Explanation:
I repeat Mag. RaWa´s proposal in order to give more explanation.

The agens/patiens pair:

agens is the agent, the one who does; patiens is the one to whom it id done. It derives from Lat. patior, which is to experience, in the sense of to have something done to you (also endure, permit). From its participle "passus" we have the grammatic term "passive".

The More quotation is nice, he brings in the relationship with passion, which also derives from patior, passus sum. A modernistic viewpoint, pointing out the intimate bond of perpetrator and victim.

He uses agent and patient as translations of agens and patiens.

So the patiens/patient is the one to whom something is done. (As "patient" in a hospital!)
Selected response from:

Chris Rowson (X)
Local time: 22:26
Grading comment
Graded automatically based on peer agreement. KudoZ.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +3patiens
Chris Rowson (X)
4 +1patiens
wrtransco
4 +1addition
Uschi (Ursula) Walke
5(passive) subject
Marc S.
4passive / direct object
Beth Kantus
4patiens
Chris Rowson (X)


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


21 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
patiens


Explanation:
patiens is the opposite of agens

wrtransco
Local time: 16:26
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in pair: 236

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Uschi (Ursula) Walke: yes, if you know what agens means
36 mins
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55 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
patiens


Explanation:
I repeat Mag. RaWa´s proposal in order to give more explanation.

The agens/patiens pair:

agens is the agent, the one who does; patiens is the one to whom it id done. It derives from Lat. patior, which is to experience, in the sense of to have something done to you (also endure, permit). From its participle "passus" we have the grammatic term "passive".

The More quotation is nice, he brings in the relationship with passion, which also derives from patior, passus sum. A modernistic viewpoint, pointing out the intimate bond of perpetrator and victim.

He uses agent and patient as translations of agens and patiens.

So the patiens/patient is the one to whom something is done. (As "patient" in a hospital!)


Chris Rowson (X)
Local time: 22:26
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 768
Grading comment
Graded automatically based on peer agreement. KudoZ.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Uschi (Ursula) Walke: I like your explanation, the More quotation seems misleading to me.
50 mins
  -> He was writing in the 17th C
agree  Elvira Stoianov
1 hr
agree  Dr Janine Manuel BSc BHB MBChB
5 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
addition


Explanation:
I just have to add my conclusions after a serious google-search:

Latin:
patiens = etwas ertragend, geduldig
agens = das Treibende, die treibende Kraft.

Nice example (from the web):
The mailman (agens) is chasing the dog.
The mailman (patiens) is being chased by the dog.

So, our mailman is still the subject of the sentence, but his role changed from active to passive. (definitely enduring in this case).

Both words were alien to me, but I think it works this way:
I (agens) am not in controll of this computer.
I (patiens) am being controlled by this computer. %?§=?%!

At least I am still the subject.
HTH

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-03-18 07:11:47 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Reread Chris\'s answer and your reference and think that patient is misleading. If I say : I (patiens) am being spoiled/pampered by my friends, or I (patiens) have been seen/noticed by ..., I don\'t endure anything.
I am at the receiving end. I am still the person we are talking about, although rather inactive.
It\'s very hard to explain the accusative to English-speakers, this is just a more complex variation.

I found one web-side in English using both patiens and agens, but of course it originated at Hamburg Uni.


    Reference: http://www.coli.uni-sb.de/~keller/teaching/Internet/kerstin....
Uschi (Ursula) Walke
Local time: 06:26
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in pair: 492

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Chris Rowson (X): I left out, to simplify, the reference to the related Grk patho, for which I have to think of "experience". This is also in patiens and patient (cf. pathology). Dorry, would expand, but I have a deadline :-(
54 mins
  -> Thx. I think passive is the related word. Please finish your job! :o)
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
(passive) subject


Explanation:
cf. An Encyclopaedic Dictionary of Languages, D. Crystal, Blackwells 1992

or

English Grammar, Collins Cobuild 1990

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-03-18 10:58:45 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

\"Patient\" can also be used in linguistics, as can recipient, but neither is as common as my first suggestion.

see Encyclopædic Dictionary again

Marc S.
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:26
PRO pts in pair: 4
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6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
passive / direct object


Explanation:
The following are definitions from Randon House unabridged.
HTH!

direct object = a word or group of words representing the person or thing upon which the action of a verb is performed or toward which it is directed; in English, generally coming after the verb, without a preposition.
Example: he saw it. The pronoun it is the direct object of saw.

accusative = 1a (in certain inflected languages, as Latin, Greek, or Russian) noting a case whose distinctive function is to indicate the direct object of a verb or the object of certain prepositions. b. similar to such a case form in function or meaning; 2 Ling. pertaining to a type of language in which there is an accusative case or in which subjects of transitive verbs behave the same way as subjects of intransitive verbs.

intransitive verb = a verb that indicates a complete action without being accompanied by a direct object, as sit or lie and in English, that does not form a passive.

transitive verb = a verb accompanied by a direct object and from which a passive can be formed, as deny, rectify, elect.

passive (adj) = noting a voice in the in the inflection of the verb in some languages which is used to indicate that the subject undergoes the action of the verb.(noun) = the passive voice; a passive form or construction

Beth Kantus
United States
Local time: 16:26
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in pair: 924
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1 day 1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
patiens


Explanation:
OK, by special request from Uschi, here are my further notes on this subject.

We have some contrasting pairs in play here: active/passive, agens/patiens, agent/patient, subject/object. The first three all align with each other: the agens or agent acts, the patiens/patient experiences.

The fourth pair is different, as pointed out by the grammar book quoted: while the agens is the subject of inactive sentences, in passive sentences, the subject is the patiens.

What interests me, and perhaps Uschi, is the complex of linguistic resonances here. Anyone occupied with European language knows active and passive. From the English standpoint, act, acts, active are all self-evident. The passive-side words are, however, less current, and, to me, more interesting - they relate to the basics of thinking and being: experience, erleben, and expand and extend, while the active words remain tighter.

"Patient" is current in English principally in the doctor-patient sense, and as "geduldig". These illustrate the breadth of the underlying context, like the tips of tree roots surfacing many metres from the trunk. Still further away is the related "pathetic".

Lacking real knowledge of deeper Indo-European roots, my understanding of this starts with the Greek verb patho (excuse my spelling), which fascinated me as a young student. In the first place, it is middle deponent, which I have forgotten how to explain. And the nearest I have to a translation into English is "I experience", although this is to be understood in the widest sense, and beyond. Related is the Latin "patior, passus", which is not greatly different.

Henry More (1614-1687) will have known all this much better than I, so for him it was no particular transformation to use "agent" and "patient" as the English forms of "agens" and "patiens". But the active side keeps its senses tight, these agent/active/act words continue to have much the same sense from 500 BC to 2002.

However, in modern English, patient is no longer understood like this. The patient is the subject of the doctor´s efforts. The patient is to be patient and wait passively for the doctor. And most English people think of these two "patient"s as urelated words.

Further illustrating the fluid, extensive nature of the passive side is "pathetic". Also clearly deriving from Greek patho and its adjective pathetikos, it has had its modern sense only about 150 years. In the 18th century its sense was more "deeply expressive" - because expressing something deeply felt ( = experienced).

To relate back to the question, patiens is Latin, as described above, and means that which experiences.


Chris Rowson (X)
Local time: 22:26
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 768
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