prima extra legal

21:35 Jan 7, 2011 

1. It refers to payments over and above the employees legal entitlement.
2. However, the ST refers to a situation in which the employer is side-stepping his contractual obligations by...

Reconcile??

17:52 Jan 7, 2011 

I think our difference may lie in the meaning of 'extralegal' in Spanish. You assume it is something 'not specifically laid down by law'. I assume it is something for which there is no legal obligation. The Real Academia interestingly does not list the word so we might as well leave it there anyway.

17:49 Jan 7, 2011 

So too is my participation in this 'discussion' which is irrelevant in the context of Asker's question.

17:43 Jan 7, 2011 

Sorry, you seem to be contradicting yourself. We are discussing whether these payments are legal or extra-legal. You affirmed they are extra-legal, i.e. discretionary. Now you say the employer is sidestepping CONTRACTUAL obligations. If they are extra-legal payments there is no contractual obligation. You can't have it both ways. With respect.

17:37 Jan 7, 2011 

The question is not whether payments/bonuses are due by law, and collective agreements are irrelevant here since it is the employee's individual contract (which may of course include terms agreed in collective bargaining) with has force of law vis a vis the employer.
However, the ST refers to a situation in which the employer is side-stepping his contractual obligations by sanctionning employees without cause, thus rendering them uneligible to benefit from the payments. The ST refers to 'robbery', but that word is clearly being used emotively, not literally.

17:33 Jan 7, 2011 

and for prima, eg.
En el caso del salario variable no sabemos cuanto va a percibir el trabajador en todo el año, porque puede
ser que en otro mes gane el doble o más de lo que ganó en este mes, por lo tanto solo sabemos cuanto en
exactitud le corresponde de prima vacacional y de aguinaldo, por lo que su salario es variable, es decir, está
integrada por elementos que no sabemos si se van a obtener o no en el mes siguiente
http://www.elprisma.com/apuntes/administracion_de_empresas/d...

This prima is not discretionary, it is a legal entitlement.

17:27 Jan 7, 2011 

If they are in a collective agreement they are due by law and are not discretionary.
http://www.todoexpertos.com/categorias/negocios/recursos-hum...

Las pagas extras: El trabajador tiene derecho a dos pagas extras, una en Navidad y otra cuando se fije en convenio. La cuantía de las pagas las fijará el convenio colectivo , siendo su tope mínimo el salario mínimo interprofesional vigente. Salvo acuerdo entre las partes, las pagas extras no se devengarán durante el periodo de incapacidad temporal, ya que durante este periodo el salario se sustituye por una prestación, para cuyo cálculo se computa la parte proporcional de las pagas extras.
http://www.ciberconta.unizar.es/leccion/der004/200.HTM

17:21 Jan 7, 2011 

re you question to wendy. Let's distinguish bonus from payment. A bonus is usually extra-legal and discretionary, although not always. Read any convenio colectivo and you will find a host of 'conceptos salariales', legally payable, under the heading of primas, extras etc.

17:15 Jan 7, 2011 

I can't give specific examples no. But I could imagine for example that the law allows companies to pay employees an extra amount for overtime, or for living in a certain area (cf London weighting). It is not a compulsory payment, but an "extra payment" that is codified in law.

17:13 Jan 7, 2011 

Can you think of any kind of 'bonus or payment' which is simultaneously 'extra' and 'allowed (or provided for) by law'? Laws, as a general rule, define minimum payments; 'extras' are, by definition, a matter for individual or collective bargaining and are set out in employee contracts.

17:06 Jan 7, 2011 

but I don't like using"legal" as an adjective in this way; I would expand and say "...the extra bonus/payment allowed [to them] under law"

17:03 Jan 7, 2011 

The text is not about Spain.

16:53 Jan 7, 2011 

In Spain, pagos extras are common. a pago extra legal would not be the same thing as a pago extralegal.

16:51 Jan 7, 2011 

That would be extralegal, not extra legal. May be a misprint though. The fact that they are being 'robbed' would suggest, IHMO, that the payment is in fact legally due, is thus an extra payment of the many types found in hispanic labour law, otherwise it would be a discretionary or 'extralegal' payment and thus would need resort to robbery by way of imposing penalties in order to elude it.

16:40 Jan 7, 2011 

It is quite precisely NOT 'their legal extra payment'; extra legal means 'over and above the entitlement defined in law'.

16:30 Jan 7, 2011 

Or, penalise the majority of the personnel in order to deprive them of their legal extra payment.