Mar 8, 2012 22:28
12 yrs ago
2 viewers *
French term
United States
Legal / Contracts / Business / Technical
Native in: English (Variant: US) 
Works in: French to English
la copie n'est pas suffisante
French to English
Other
Education / Pedagogy
secondary education
Hello all,
This shows up in the comments section of a high school transcript I am translating from English to French. I know copie can mean essay, but since it is for a math class I was wondering if there was another meaning I should be looking for (copying down notes? a blank sheet of paper?), and also if it was referring to one single "copie" or the general idea of "la copie."
Context:
Philosophie:
Une absence non justifiée à un devoir sur table qui rend impossible d'évaluer le niveau réel de ce trimestre.
Mathématique:
Plus aucun travail, personnel ou en cours. La copie n'est pas suffisante !...
Thanks!
This shows up in the comments section of a high school transcript I am translating from English to French. I know copie can mean essay, but since it is for a math class I was wondering if there was another meaning I should be looking for (copying down notes? a blank sheet of paper?), and also if it was referring to one single "copie" or the general idea of "la copie."
Context:
Philosophie:
Une absence non justifiée à un devoir sur table qui rend impossible d'évaluer le niveau réel de ce trimestre.
Mathématique:
Plus aucun travail, personnel ou en cours. La copie n'est pas suffisante !...
Thanks!
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +2 | there is sufficient written work |
Alison Sparks (X)
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| 4 +1 | You are asked to do more than copy |
katsy
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| 4 -1 | term paper unsatisfactory |
Clarissa Hull
|
| 3 -1 | it isn't just about exams |
Sheila Wilson
|
Proposed translations
+2
5 mins
Selected
there is sufficient written work
to evaluate progress.
I think I've heard this before from a French teacher friend who complained about being unable to grade students who skipped classes and produced no work generally. I think this probably works for US EN as well as UK.
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Note added at 6 mins (2012-03-08 22:34:31 GMT)
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sorry "insufficient written work"
I think I've heard this before from a French teacher friend who complained about being unable to grade students who skipped classes and produced no work generally. I think this probably works for US EN as well as UK.
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Note added at 6 mins (2012-03-08 22:34:31 GMT)
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sorry "insufficient written work"
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
-1
13 mins
Sheila Wilson
Spain
Spain
Native in English
Works in field
Spain
20 years producing 100% natural English
Native in: English (Variant: British)
Works in: English, French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
107
it isn't just about exams
That might be a little too free a translation for your context.
I know as an EFL trainer in France that "la copie" can refer to exam papers and I believe that fits the context i.e. you may be able to pass an exam simply by remembering some facts, but if you don't work you'll never understand the subject sufficiently to apply it.
I know as an EFL trainer in France that "la copie" can refer to exam papers and I believe that fits the context i.e. you may be able to pass an exam simply by remembering some facts, but if you don't work you'll never understand the subject sufficiently to apply it.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Neil Coffey
: Sheila -- "la copie" can indeed refer to a student's exam script. But I'm not sure I get your interpretation in this particular context.
1 day 18 hrs
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I suggested this because it's for maths - I never wrote maths essays but I did do maths exams
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| disagree |
Clarissa Hull
: It isn't about exams
2 days 31 mins
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OK, you can clearly read more from that short context than I can
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| neutral |
Myriam Dupouy
: I'm sorry Sheila, I really think Katsy's interpretation is the right one.
2 days 11 hrs
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You're probably right, Myriam
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-1
16 hrs
Clarissa Hull
Switzerland
Switzerland
Native in English
Works in field
Switzerland
Meanings, not words
Native in: German 
, English
Works in: French to English, French to German, German to English, and 3 more.
term paper unsatisfactory
My son did all his secondary schooling in France. He tells me that "copie" is a paper filled in during school hours or written at home and then turned in for assessment.
Le Petit Robert gives an example: "ramasser les copies après une épreuve"
Le Petit Robert gives an example: "ramasser les copies après une épreuve"
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Neil Coffey
: I think out of context you could interpret it this way. *But* it's prefixed with a comment that the pupil has done NO work, so I think katsy could be right that they intended to refer litterally to "copying things out" in this case.
1 day 2 hrs
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No "interpreting" nor "copying". "Copie" is written work assessed during term, be it written in class or at home. Moreover it counts as a grade for the final report. I have in on authority from a lycée teacher.
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| disagree |
Myriam Dupouy
: I am really sorry Clarissa, but with the given context, Neil and Katsy are right. "Copie" here really isn't "term paper". Wouldn't mean anything in this particular context.//It is, but not in this particular context. (I'm a teacher, Clarissa).
1 day 19 hrs
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Several lycée students and teachers have confirmed that the term "copie" is the actual paper filled in and submitted by students for term assessment (also called "contrôle" or "devoir"), at least in Haute-Savoie.
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| neutral |
katsy
: nobody is disputing that 'copie' means written work as you describe; I just think that in this context, it is not what is meant; I teach in a French lycée, quite used both to 'copies' and to 'bulletins' (and to mere copying)// et pourtant!
1 day 21 hrs
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Your suggested answer in a "bulletin trimestriel"? Would sound weird, IMHO
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+1
18 hrs
You are asked to do more than copy
As a teacher myself, I find the phrasing strange.... first the teacher says there is no work, then refers to a single paper (la copie).....
Sooo ..... I very much suspect (s)he is saying that it is not enough to copy (off someone else., out of a book).....
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Note added at 19 hrs (2012-03-09 17:30:23 GMT)
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I may have been a little "elliptic" here. "Copie" - e;g. "travail de copie", simply means copying - not necessarily cheating, just copying.....
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Note added at 2 days11 hrs (2012-03-11 09:28:22 GMT)
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IN response to some of the discussion on the page....
First of all, in the first meaning of "copie" is the faithful reproduction of sth written cf http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/copie
Second, I do totally agree that the teacher's phrase is open to interpretation.
However, NO term's work (I speak as a teacher in a lycée) is dependent on ONE 'copie' (paper) - and this is why the sentence is very strange if 'paper' is what is referred to. All the more so, as you may note that the philosophy teacher talks about the 'devoir surveillé' which would be equivalent to UK's internal school exams.
Thirdly, - and this is just my gut feeling (I have been writing school reports for French students for over 30 years!) - the teacher may have chosen this phrasing, as I say originally, to avoid saying sth he/she can't prove, i.e., that the student is copying off someone else - for which he/she should have used the term "copiage". At least "copie" laisee planer le doute.
And again I repeat - c'est un simple travail de copie - means... all this work involves is copying....
sorry to have been so verbose, and for any repetitions!
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Note added at 2 days11 hrs (2012-03-11 09:29:47 GMT)
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oops, typo above "LAISSE planer le doute" of course
Sooo ..... I very much suspect (s)he is saying that it is not enough to copy (off someone else., out of a book).....
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs (2012-03-09 17:30:23 GMT)
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I may have been a little "elliptic" here. "Copie" - e;g. "travail de copie", simply means copying - not necessarily cheating, just copying.....
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Note added at 2 days11 hrs (2012-03-11 09:28:22 GMT)
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IN response to some of the discussion on the page....
First of all, in the first meaning of "copie" is the faithful reproduction of sth written cf http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/copie
Second, I do totally agree that the teacher's phrase is open to interpretation.
However, NO term's work (I speak as a teacher in a lycée) is dependent on ONE 'copie' (paper) - and this is why the sentence is very strange if 'paper' is what is referred to. All the more so, as you may note that the philosophy teacher talks about the 'devoir surveillé' which would be equivalent to UK's internal school exams.
Thirdly, - and this is just my gut feeling (I have been writing school reports for French students for over 30 years!) - the teacher may have chosen this phrasing, as I say originally, to avoid saying sth he/she can't prove, i.e., that the student is copying off someone else - for which he/she should have used the term "copiage". At least "copie" laisee planer le doute.
And again I repeat - c'est un simple travail de copie - means... all this work involves is copying....
sorry to have been so verbose, and for any repetitions!
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Note added at 2 days11 hrs (2012-03-11 09:29:47 GMT)
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oops, typo above "LAISSE planer le doute" of course
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Neil Coffey
: It's maybe more idiomatic to say e.g. "It's no good just copying things out!", but I think this is probably what they intended.
1 day 30 mins
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Thanks Neil, I think you're right - maybe better to be more idiomatic. I was a bit 'obnubilée' by the idea of leaving the 'copying' ambiguous, and not to be interpreted (necessarily) as an accusation of cheating
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| disagree |
Clarissa Hull
: "Copie"does not mean "copy" in this context. Beware of "false friends".
1 day 6 hrs
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Clarissa, please read note above...
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| agree |
Myriam Dupouy
: That's it! We do write this kind of thing all the time in our "bulletins". I have plenty of pupils who think writing a lesson down means the "job" is done... (not to mention the ones who write nothing!)
1 day 17 hrs
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thanks Myriam!
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