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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

3ème étage gauche par escalier

English translation:

on the left by the stairs on the 3rd floor

Added to glossary by Jana Cole
Jul 24, 2017 11:13
6 yrs ago
7 viewers *
French term

3ème étage gauche par escalier

Non-PRO French to English Other General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters real estate
This appears in a lease. Is this saying that you should turn left at that top of the stairs as you reach the third floor?
Or is it that it's on the left side as you walk down the third floor hall? ...
Something like "An apartment located on the 3rd floor1 left by stair"

Un appartement situé au 3ème étage gauche par escalier
Proposed translations (English)
4 +2 on the left by the stairs on the 3rd floor
4 3rd floor left(-hand side), no lift

Discussion

Tony M Jul 26, 2017:
@ ph-b Yes, exactly! Such a hugh difference between what one might say informally, and how things are expressed in the written coded language of this or that field.
ph-b (X) Jul 26, 2017:
@ Tony ''word-for-word 'accurate'' Not quite what I meant - I believe the two don't always go hand in hand - but never mind. Can I just say to conclude that as a native speaker, the first time I saw this question I understood it to mean 'on the left as you get to the 3rd floor by/using/going up the stairs', which is what I'd say to a UK friend, 'say' being of course different from 'translate professionnally' and I trust your experience translating ads.
Tony M Jul 26, 2017:
@ ph-b Yes, of course you're right! I've not personally observed a more positive spin on this in adverts in EN-GB, but Writeaway has very kindly given us the EN-US version: 'walk-up'.

Regarding accuracy in a legal document — well yes, of course! BUT in this instance how do you 'accurately' translate a concept that originates from industry jargon and not a text of law? Any attempt at a word-for-word 'accurate' translation here leads us back to this frighteningly faux ami of "on the left at the top of the stairs" or "... as you go up the stairs" — note that it does NOT say "à gauche de l'escalier" or "sur le gauche en haut de l'escalier"; the sort of precise language one might reasonably expect to find in a legal document. It is pretty clear that the property description has (perhaps wisely!) been lifted pretty much wholesale from the original property ad, written by the estate agent rather than the jurist! So surely what we have to do is accurately translate the meaning of the source expression — even if that means deviating from an obviously precise word-by-word solution?
writeaway Jul 26, 2017:
I stand by what I originally posted in here in the Dbox. Like Tony, I also have vast experience translating such texts. A lift is a big + in a building. Read a few of the Paris ads, where the rent appears almost affordable. There is often no lift. So if there were a lift (US elevator), that would certainly be mentioned. Par escalier means it's a walk-up. I don't see how it can mean anything else.
ph-b (X) Jul 26, 2017:
@Tony You're right about an ad being positive rather than negative. But isn’t there a way of adopting the same approach in English? Isn’t ‘no lift’ – which may well be what par escalier actually means – a bit too negative for an ad which is supposed to get people interested in the property, not drive them away? Can't you just say '3rd floor(-lefthand side)'? The other thing that I've been wondering about since this question was asked is that this a lease, i.e. a legal document. Shouldn't the translation be as close as possible to the source text?
Tony M Jul 26, 2017:
@ Patrick Thank you for your support!
However, I do have to take issue with you on one point: in this very specific context of estate agents' jargon, the absence of a mift IS very specifically stated by the use of the particular expression 'Xe étage par escalier' — this is a coded way of saying "...because there's no lift", but attempts to make a positive marketing point (well, at least there's a staircase!) instead of expressing a negative!

Please trust me on this point — I have translated thousands of property adverts over many years, and puzzled myself by this question, I actually asked some property professionals and hence got this answer straight "from the horses mouth".
patrickfor Jul 26, 2017:
Nothing really says there is / there is no lift.
As Tony and others said it's the flat on the left when you get there using the stairs.
I believe Tony is right anyway because if there was a lift it will be specified as it's a plus... but I wouldn't go as far as translating something that is not said... :-)
polyglot45 Jul 24, 2017:
@Tony Admittedly I don't translate this sort of stuff but it is everyday language also and how people direct others to their homes. All the estate agents I've dealt with would say "3e sans ascenseur"
Tony M Jul 24, 2017:
@ P/G Yes, in reality, that's all very well; but here, we are talking about the very specific language of estate agents' advertising, which is telegraphic, but has to be precise and (usually!) unambiguous.
If you leave out the gauche part, it reads "3ème étage ... par escalier" which is exactly the euphemism they use for avoiding saying "i.e. there's no lift"; the 'gauche' is a separate issue, and as I've said, it is confusing because there's no rhyme nor reason to saying "it's on the left at the top of the stairs, but that's actually thr right-hand side of the building, as the stairs do a half turn" — as is very common in these sorts of blocks.
polyglot45 Jul 24, 2017:
Sorry to contradict such authorities but I don't read this as meaning that there is no lift.
It sounds much like a place I once lived that was 1er étage droite: meaning that when you got to the first floor via the stairs it was the door on the right of the landing in relation to the stairs. No more, no less. But we also had a lift
Tony M Jul 24, 2017:
@ Nikki Well, that IS basically what I've been saying all along, after all!
However, with my many years of translating estate agents' jargon in property ads, it's a pretty sure bet that it is indeed 2 flats to each floor, either side of the central communal stairwell; this is a typical configuration in smaller blocks, and consisten with the description here.
As I said, there is no real point saying 'on the left' by way of additional useless information, unless it is specifically 'the left-hand flat'; again, there is no indication it is the 'left-hand front / back flat'. All these things lead me to believe, on the basis of my experience, that my suggestion, though possibly incomplete, is very unlikely to be actually wrong.
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Jul 24, 2017:
@Tony All we know for sure is 3rd floor, on the left, etc.
If the number is indicated, it may be one of a numebr of flats, so I don't think it is safe to suggest anything along the lines of "the flat on the left" with 100% certainty. It could of course be meaning "the one on the left", two flats to a landing. It should be kept fairly non-committal. I do understand that if youa re used to doing these type of texts, then you probably have the right instinct about it.
Tony M Jul 24, 2017:
@ Terry I don't think that's very likely, TBH; that sort oof thing would usually be expressed as something like 'bâtiment de gauche, porte numéro X' etc. — and if it were an actual tower, it would quite likely say so.
Immediately I read this, being used to translating property adverts, I didn't have the least doubt in my mind as to how to interpret it.
Tony M Jul 24, 2017:
@ Nikki It's not too bad if one is used to translating this sort of short-form jargon, you soon get used to the ways they abbrevaite things. As I said, '3e étage gauche' (in the absence of further qualification) can only be read as 'the left-hand apartment on the 3rd floor' — we don't know which way the stairs face, and hence in which direction you are facing when you come off the stairs; hence 'turning' would be rather unwise.

Likewise, as Philippa also said, '3e étage ... par escalier' in my experience always means '3rd floor, no lift'; it doesn't indicate the orientation of the flat, just a euphemistic way of saying there's no lift!
Terry Richards Jul 24, 2017:
Yet another option There could be two towers and this flat is in the left tower. It seems unlikely that such a building wouldn't have a lift though...
Tony M Jul 24, 2017:
@ Asker I agree with Philippa: it's the left-hand flat in the block — there could well be only 2 per floor; you cannot assume any kind of 'corridor' or 'turning left' without knowing more about the layout; but as they don't specify anything further, like 'côté cour / rue', for example, it's a reasonable bet there is just a left-hand and a right-hand flat on each floor.
If you have the actual address, look it up on Google StreetView and see what sort of block it is?
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Jul 24, 2017:
Note form like this is irritating. It's fine if you actually have it in hand as you are visiting the appartment, it will make sense, or if you have the plans to hand. For translation, it suddenly becomes awkward.

I'd instinctively suppose this meant: third floor, on your left as you go up the stairs. That may be wrong though. Unless you can get more detailed info, you may have to be just as ambiguous: third floor left by the stairs.
Philippa Smith Jul 24, 2017:
It is a bit ambiguous, but I'd say it was the left-hand flat on the 3rd floor (on the left when you reach the floor). Where's the flat located, can you tell? Could give a clue...
writeaway Jul 24, 2017:
there can be more than one staircase one to the left, one to the right. both can be accessed from the ground floor but on the to get to the upper floors, you take the right or left stairwell depending where the flat is located. My building also has a left and right access on the ground floor. This building is clearly a walk-up (USA term). So no elevator/lift.
Jana Cole (asker) Jul 24, 2017:
Ok, thanks. I didn't know "par escalier" meant no elevator. I'm also confused about what "gauche" refers to. On the left as you walk down the hall? The left staircase?
writeaway Jul 24, 2017:
it simply means there is no elevator it's a walk-up in US English.

Proposed translations

+2
4 hrs
Selected

on the left by the stairs on the 3rd floor

I don't think you can decisively say whether it's next to the stairs or further away
Or how many apartments there are per floor
As TM suggests, try looking at Google street view to see if this helps
Peer comment(s):
neutral Tony M : But 'by the stairs', informally suggesting 'adjacent to the stairs' would be unwise here amountin to some extent to over-interpretation. / Nope, it's 'left in the building' — all depends on how the stairs are oriented... / Too colloquial for legal.
13 mins
good point; maybe "left AT the stairs" (indicating a direction)
agree ph-b (X) : This is a lease and the translation shld be as close as possible to the source text - which your answer seems to be.
1 day 17 hrs
Thank you
neutral writeaway : no, it's simply a flat on 3rd/4th floor that is accessed by walking up the left stairway. no more complicated than that/a left staircase but no right? ok....
1 day 19 hrs
Well, you have assumed there is both a left and a right stairway; I fail to see that
agree GILLES MEUNIER
5 days
Thank you
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
4 hrs

3rd floor left(-hand side), no lift

This is typical estate agents' jargon

Don't forget, of course, thet FR and EN '3rd floor' would be '4th floor' in the US.

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Note added at 9 heures (2017-07-24 20:24:08 GMT)
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Here are some examples of this usage with 'par escalier' in propery adverts and related material:

Les chambres | Hôtel de la Plage à Gruissan

www.hotelplagegruissan.fr/fr/les-chambres/

... permettent de proposer une version double ou twin. TV écran plat Led 32 pouces. Salle de bain spacieuse et bien équipée. Au 2ème étage par escalier.

Facade Etage Maison Escalier Exterieur - Immojojo

www.immojojo.com/facade-etage-maison-escalier-exterieur

Saint-Denis, à 4 mn à pied du Métro Basilique, 3 mn du Tramway, 7/8 mn de la gare RER D, au sein du coeur de ville commerçant, au 2ème étage par escalier ...

Appartements - APIC IMMOBILIER

apic-immobilier.com/locapt/index.html

proche gare, commerces et école sur place, au 2ème étage par escalier privatif, dégagement, salle d'eau équipée avec emplacement lave linge, wc, séjour ...

Vente appartement 5 pièces F5 T5 Paris 109m² - Une Maison Bleue

www.unemaisonbleue.com/2364-vente-appartement-5.../appartem...

4 juil. 2017 - Situé au 2ème étage par escalier, seul sur le palier, cet appartement lumineux et ensoleillé comprend : une entrée, un double-séjour d'angle ...

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Note added at 9 heures (2017-07-24 20:25:16 GMT)
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Several thousand Ghits each for '2ème étage' and '3ème étage' — I didn't go any higher, as I was too puffed out!

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Note added at 9 heures (2017-07-24 20:30:04 GMT)
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It's very important to differentiate between the way you or I might describe a property, and any fortuitous similarity with the specific jargon used by estate agents in highly telegraphic property ads — of which I have translated literally 1000's over a period of many years.

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Note added at 1 jour22 heures (2017-07-26 09:25:58 GMT)
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It should be remebered that, even though this is within a legal document, in and of itself the source text is not couched in legal language and seems indeed to have probably been lifted directly from what was probably the estate agent's propert description. As such, it remains relatively telegraphic compared to the usual dotted I's and crossed T's of a legal text. As such, I have attempted to reproduce the same style in my suggestion — which is of course closer to the style of an estate agent's document.

But it would clearly be perfectly possible to "flesh it out" to make it sound more appropriate for a legal-style document — albeit drifting further from the style of the source text.

Always a thorny question: to what extent 'style' becomes an issue of 'accuracy' where the natural style for a given type of document differs between source and target languages!
Peer comment(s):
neutral writeaway : in USAese, it's called a 3rd/4th floor walk-up (as I said in the Dbox)
3 mins
Thanks for agreeing, W/A! Asker didn't specify EN-US or EN-GB; and well done, I didn't see your contribution to the D/box. Perhaps you could add that as an answer to give the US perspective on it?
neutral ph-b (X) : Would the 'no lift' bit fit (style) in a lease, i.e. a legal document?
1 day 17 hrs
At least as well as the source text; anyway, as I said above, once the correct meaning is established, Asker can adapt style to fit in with the overall document.
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