| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | I believe ProZ.com favors outsourcers on the Blue Board Thread poster: Annette Skipper (X)
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Annette Skipper (X) 
Denmark
Local time: 16:03
English to Danish
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Hi everybody,
I have been a member for more than 3 years but unfortunately, I just recently discovered that negative Blue Board entries are removed if the outsourcers causes a stir! I was very surprised.
I made an entry (2) for an outsourcer due to terrible project management and new instructions after delivery etc., I was contacted by someone from proz.com requesting details - which I did not provide in that I in return requested a forwarding email address - and the fo... See more Hi everybody,
I have been a member for more than 3 years but unfortunately, I just recently discovered that negative Blue Board entries are removed if the outsourcers causes a stir! I was very surprised.
I made an entry (2) for an outsourcer due to terrible project management and new instructions after delivery etc., I was contacted by someone from proz.com requesting details - which I did not provide in that I in return requested a forwarding email address - and the following day, my entry was removed as being 'contrary to Blue Board' policy.
I forwarded a complaint to Henry Dotterer (the founder of proz.com) and the person responsible for removing my entry saying that I did not understand. To my amazement, 'client claims bad quality' was the reply I got from the proz employee - I had not heard one word of this from the client, and the client had in fact given my another task after the problematic one. All this I informed proz.com of but alas, to not avail. It would appear that Proz.com is not protecting the rights of translators bus has sided with outsourcers.... even it is customary and standard in the industry for outsources to claim 'bad quality' within a week or so of reception of the translation job. This, proz.com seems not the care about.
This posting will be probably by subjected to editing by proz.com as the site seems uninterested in getting the truth about this out in the open. Henry has neglected to reply to my emails despite several reminders to his 'give me a week or so and I will get back to you'. I'd have a bad taste in my mouth if I was working for proz.com these days!
Kind regards
Annette
[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2011-11-28 18:55 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Noticed the same | Nov 28, 2011 |
I was contacted by Proz concerning an agency who hadn't paid my invoice 5 years ago ! The client paid me about 10 days ago and my negative comment was deleted.
I don't consider it normal because paying 5 years later is not normal.
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 16:03
French to German
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| On the other face of the coin... | Nov 28, 2011 |
I have been told by an outsourcer with some bad to very bad BB ratings that
1) they were fighting in order to have negative entries removed as the translators were paid (probably late to very late, but I am not sure about that point);
2) they had not succeeded so far although these entries were rather old.
As far as I am concerned, this raises the following simple question: under which conditions and/or circumstances are BB ratings removed by ProZ.com staff... See more I have been told by an outsourcer with some bad to very bad BB ratings that
1) they were fighting in order to have negative entries removed as the translators were paid (probably late to very late, but I am not sure about that point);
2) they had not succeeded so far although these entries were rather old.
As far as I am concerned, this raises the following simple question: under which conditions and/or circumstances are BB ratings removed by ProZ.com staff?
I don't think we can say that ProZ.com "favours outsourcers" as long as this question has not been answered.
My 2 cents.
ETA: quality claims on the outsourcer's side should really be submitted for examination to an independent 3rd party. Not so long ago, I suggested that this third party could be a CPN translator working in the language pairs of the challenged translation.
[Edited at 2011-11-28 12:07 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jaroslaw Michalak
Poland
Local time: 16:03
Member (2004)
English to Polish
SITE LOCALIZER | Contradiction? | Nov 28, 2011 |
If it is true that entries are being removed, then it is in a clear contradiction with the BB rules!
As far as I know (and is written), BB entry is not a record of payment made by outsourcers. It is likelihood of working again with a given outsourcer. I think it is quite safe to assume that if the invoice is paid after five years, this likelihood does not rise all of a sudden?
[Edited at 2011-11-28 12:13 GMT]
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Annette Skipper (X)
Denmark
Local time: 16:03
English to Danish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Yes, it is true | Nov 28, 2011 |
Jabberwock wrote:
If it is true that entries are being removed, then it is in a clear contradiction with the BB rules!
[Edited at 2011-11-28 12:13 GMT]
Yes, it is true that items are being removed by proz.com from BB - my original entry was removed, and so have two subsequente entries for the same outsourcer been! This is why I am so aggrevated about this issue - because if entries may only appear at the discretion of proz.com, then, in my opinion, the whole system is not worth much.
| | | | inkweaver
Germany
Local time: 16:03
French to German
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| My two cents | Nov 28, 2011 |
IMHO, getting paid with considerable delay doesn't justify the removal of a negative rating from the BB, especially not if the translator concerned does not agree.
The fact that payment was (considerably) delayed still remains, therefore I don't see why colleagues should not be warned before they find themselves in a similar unpleasant situation. Removing negative ratings only gives carte blanche to bad business practices.
| | | | Annette Skipper (X)
Denmark
Local time: 16:03
English to Danish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Submission for examination by third party | Nov 28, 2011 |
Laurent KRAULAND wrote:
ETA: quality claims on the outsourcer's side should really be submitted for examination to an independent 3rd party. Not so long ago, I suggested that this third party could be a CPN translator working in the language pairs of the challenged translation.
[Edited at 2011-11-28 12:07 GMT]
I agree. But what can you do as a translator when neither the 'unbiassed organ' nor the outsourcer is willing to communicate with you????
| | | | Natalie
Poland
Local time: 16:03
Member (2002)
English to Russian
+ ...
MODERATOR SITE LOCALIZER
Annette Skipper wrote:
I just recently discovered that negative Blue Board entries are removed if the outsourcers causes a stir!
This is a wrong statement. Both negative and positive Blue Board entries are removed if they are not in line with the Blue Board rules http://www.proz.com/?sp=siterules&mode=show&category=blue_board_bb_blueboard
I made an entry (2) for an outsourcer due to terrible project management and new instructions after delivery etc., I was contacted by someone from proz.com requesting details - which I did not provide in that I in return requested a forwarding email address - and the following day, my entry was removed as being 'contrary to Blue Board' policy.
First of all, according to http://www.proz.com/siterules/blue_board_bb_blueboard/7#7 , "Defamation is not permitted. The Blue Board may not be used to defame any individual or business. Entries, comments accompanying entries, and responses to entries, must focus strictly on willingness to work again."
Your entry was not in line with this rule as it contained extraneous comments on the outsourcer.
Second, you yourself have stated in your entry: "wrongful review (which I was required to correct)". Have you corrected the translation as you were required? Yes, I know that reviews sometimes are wrongful. But in this case it is not enough just to say: "I am right, and they are wrong"; you need to check the comments one by one and provide the reasoning. In case you believe you are right you can provide documentation in proof. Wrongful reviews usually are quite easy to refute.
I forwarded a complaint to Henry Dotterer (the founder of proz.com) and the person responsible for removing my entry saying that I did not understand. To my amazement, 'client claims bad quality' was the reply I got from the proz employee - I had not heard one word of this from the client, and the client had in fact given my another task after the problematic one.
But if you received a review (even wrongful) and were required to correct the translation, it means that you have heard from the client, have you? The client provided evidence, and you haven't - so provide your evidence, ask for a third-party review, this would be quite helpful.
It would appear that Proz.com is not protecting the rights of translators bus has sided with outsourcers.... even it is customary and standard in the industry for outsources to claim 'bad quality' within a week or so of reception of the translation job. This, proz.com seems not the care about.
In accordance with the Blue Board rules, certain conditions must be met before Blue Board entries can be made. Entries concerning the Likelihood of Working Again (LWA) with given outsourcers are allowed only when (1) commissioned work has been completed in full and delivered on time, and (2) there have not been complaints related to quality shortly after delivery.
http://www.proz.com/siterules/blue_board_bb_blueboard/2#2
This posting will be probably by subjected to editing by proz.com ...
Forum posting are not edited by anyone except their authors.
Natalia
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Natalie
Poland
Local time: 16:03
Member (2002)
English to Russian
+ ...
MODERATOR SITE LOCALIZER | The BB entries are removed | Nov 28, 2011 |
Laurent KRAULAND wrote:
under which conditions and/or circumstances are BB ratings removed by ProZ.com staff?
in two cases:
1) if they are not in line with the rules, and
2) if the poster requests the removal.
| | | | | Some notes on Blue Board feedback entry management | Nov 28, 2011 |
Hello all,
In dealing with feedback entries, and entries which are contested by either or both parties, staff adhere to site rules and policies. You can see these here:
Site rules governing the Blue Board:
http://www.proz.com/?sp=siterules&mode=show&category=blue_board_bb_blueboard
The termination policy for outsourc... See more Hello all,
In dealing with feedback entries, and entries which are contested by either or both parties, staff adhere to site rules and policies. You can see these here:
Site rules governing the Blue Board:
http://www.proz.com/?sp=siterules&mode=show&category=blue_board_bb_blueboard
The termination policy for outsourcers:
http://www.proz.com/termination_policy
And Blue Board-specific FAQs such as
http://www.proz.com/faq/2995#2995
No favoritism occurs in these dealings, and I cannot think of any good reason why it would be convenient for those involved, or staff, for favoritism to occur.
In cases where non-payment has been noted along with a feedback entry, and payment is made, the entry is removed, and the service provider is allowed to make a new entry. The new entry may be of the same rating, of course, but it should be an entry which reflects the fact that payment is no longer pending. This is in the interest of keeping the feedback up to date; a feedback comment of "Have not yet paid my invoice for 50 EUR" is not accurate if payment has been made (even if it was made late)-- "Paid my invoice for 50 EUR 4 months late and after several reminders" would better reflect a situation where payment was resolved, but not in a timely manner.
In cases where quality issues may be present, both parties are asked to submit certain information and substantiation of claims. If it is determined that quality issues were present, an entry may be removed ( http://www.proz.com/siterules/blue_board_bb_blueboard/2#2 ).
There are other reasons for which a feedback entry may be removed, in accordance with the rules cited above, or in cases where the service provider requests that an entry be removed.
Jared ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Thanks Natalie | Nov 28, 2011 |
As usual, you are much faster than I am. Thanks!
Jared
| | | | Annette Skipper (X)
Denmark
Local time: 16:03
English to Danish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | ½ day to determine quality issues unilaterally? | Nov 28, 2011 |
Jared wrote: In cases where quality issues may be present, both parties are asked to submit certain information and substantiation of claims. If it is determined that quality issues were present, an entry may be removed ( http://www.proz.com/siterules/blue_board_bb_blueboard/2#2 ). Jared
Jared, I understand. But how can your employee determine in ½ a day that quality issues are present when she has not been presented with the facts from both sides and the text in questions has not been examined by a third party?
And why remove quality issue entries in the first place?!?!?
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Annette Skipper (X)
Denmark
Local time: 16:03
English to Danish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Natalie wrote: In accordance with the Blue Board rules, certain conditions must be met before Blue Board entries can be made. Entries concerning the Likelihood of Working Again (LWA) with given outsourcers are allowed only when (1) commissioned work has been completed in full and delivered on time, and (2) there have not been complaints related to quality shortly after delivery. http://www.proz.com/siterules/blue_board_bb_blueboard/2#2 Natalia
Sounds great, Natalia, then I look to forward to seeing my entry re-appear. The job was delivered on time and in full, and I did not hear one word from the outsourcer about the quality. Great news!!!
By the way, being a professional translator, I do not introduce things in translations that are wrong. If you are a translator, you will now that grammar rules vary and I cannot un-conjugate Danisk adjectives that must be conjugated.... but this the PM would not accept. This is the kind of changes I refused to perform.
So please, do not come here and tell me that I have not tried to reason with the outsourcer (which in fact did not reply to this criticism and did not escalate the issue to someone with more power in her organization to get the matter solved amicably). It is true that the same PM sent me a small new job a few days later, but again, noonw mentioned the so-called bad quality of the first translation.
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In cases where non-payment has been noted along with a feedback entry, and payment is made, the entry is removed, and the service provider is allowed to make a new entry. The new entry may be of the same rating, of course, but it should be an entry which reflects the fact that payment is no longer pending. This is in the interest of keeping the feedback up to date; a feedback comment of "Have not yet paid my invoice for 50 EUR" is not accurate if payment has been made (even if it was made late)-- "Paid my invoice for 50 EUR 4 months late and after several reminders" would better reflect a situation where payment was resolved, but not in a timely manner.
When this happens, is the original poster of the LWA notified that his/her posting has been removed for that reason? Are they then encouraged to post a new one?
| | | | | Who does the removing? | Nov 28, 2011 |
Jared wrote:
In cases where non-payment has been noted along with a feedback entry, and payment is made, the entry is removed, and the service provider is allowed to make a new entry. The new entry may be of the same rating, of course, but it should be an entry which reflects the fact that payment is no longer pending. This is in the interest of keeping the feedback up to date; a feedback comment of "Have not yet paid my invoice for 50 EUR" is not accurate if payment has been made (even if it was made late)-- "Paid my invoice for 50 EUR 4 months late and after several reminders" would better reflect a situation where payment was resolved, but not in a timely manner.
Jared,
Is the entry just removed by Proz or is the translator asked to remove it? Or to edit it with the updated info?
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