Jinhang Wang Jul 28, 2011:

顺便说一下，翻译就是翻译，不是注释，不是解说。一般而言，直接翻译即可，当然注意汉语的表达习惯

Kai (zhTW) (asker) Jul 27, 2011:

J. H. Wang 指出的＂個人＂，我非常贊同，
我在想作者所謂的"personal"，大概沒有泛指人類全體的意思。
但是＂個人＂是很省事的譯法，一看中文就知道英文原來是怎麼寫的，
我原來的想法是讓這個"personal"意思更清楚些，
無論是＂與個人息息相關＂，或＂個人致力於探索的＂，
我都希望能讓＂個人＂不要淪為毫不起眼的配角。

另外，經過某人指點，我了解 "It's difficult to know..." 這句算是我會錯意了，
意思大抵上是：
在海森堡提出「不確定原理」和愛因斯坦提出「相對論」之後，人們對何謂絕對、何謂相對，產生了疑問。

Jinhang Wang Jul 27, 2011:

卻也與人切身相關，叫人苦思不得其解：

我觉得不是与“人”切身相关，而是与普通的"个人"相关。

jarv95888 Jul 26, 2011:

Sorry, ChefZ. I didn't realize that you were expressing your personal ideas while I was trying so hard to clarify the writer's idea.
Anyway, I appreciate your own ideas and your critique of the text. Anyone holding ideas true to himself/herself is respectful.
Thanks.

ChefZ Jul 26, 2011:

***These problems of philosophy and mathematics are personal riddles also;*** was it always just like this, and did we fail to notice?
--》 not complete

“philosophy and mathematics” are man made, while, examples mentioned are physics -- Law of Nature. One can use philosophy to interpret physics and mathematics to model physics -- the creation of problems by oneself to oneself. Therefore, only the obsessed would suffer. Again, "was it always just like this, and did we fail to notice", the author made assumptions on his own perception but trying to involve everyone else who is/was reading. I would not definitely even consider "切身“ being close.

In my previous writeup, mocking the author was intended at certain places.

Of course, these are all from my personal point of view. I'm out on this one.

jarv95888 Jul 26, 2011:

@ ChefZ: Did you notice that the original text is in present tense and when it comes to "was it always just like this, and did we fail to ....," it becomes past tense?
My interpretation of the sentence is that the stressed point is not unsolvable or not, but the "riddle" being aware of or not.
The question is, as asked, whether people was aware of it or not.
That's why I think to package the two clauses together in the translation as MXM showed might deviate from the original meaning.
MXM expressed that he's personally interested in the text, so I just wanted to make it clearer to him what his way of rendering the sentences might miss.
To me, both suggested answers for the part of "personal riddles" are quite sufficient and fall in the right track of what the writer is saying.

Sherwin Zhou Jul 26, 2011:

The asker's own version is idiomatic enough! Traducteur同仁：你的译本“這些本是哲學和數學方面的課題，卻也與人切身相關，叫人苦思不得其解”以及“与我们个人息息相关”译得已经相当地道，相当不错！增词译意文采都非常好！

ChefZ Jul 26, 2011:

I think your translation is quite fluent, but it's a little off the mark. 《-- don't think so。

According to your translation, it means that those philosophical and math question are hard to understand (though they are closely related with personal issues.) 《-- they are difficult problems，even up to today。

In the original text, "it" doesn't refer to those questions, but the situation that "they are personal riddles. 《-- exactly

The situation is always there, but maybe we just are unable to notice that. NOT we do notice that but don't quite understand it.《-- the following text reads “*** was it always just like this, and did we fail to notice? 《-- we fail to notice phenomena aforementioned， also


”problems“ here are not solvable problems，they are difficult problems，even with relativity theory，present understanding is still at its infant stage。However，not everyone is an expert in these fields，only the obsessed。

I don't see “與人切身相關”，as an example，I can care less。

In the context， the author like to use we which just to bring readers into the scene but this also cause confusion because he definitely cannot speak for me。

Anyways，cannot dig too deep since there is no solution。

jarv95888 Jul 26, 2011:

I think your translation is quite fluent, but it's a little off the mark.
According to your translation, it means that those philosophical and math question are hard to understand (though they are closely related with personal issues.)
In the original text, "it" doesn't refer to those questions, but the situation that "they are personal riddles.
The situation is always there, but maybe we just are unable to notice that. NOT we do notice that but don't quite understand it.

Kai (zhTW) (asker) Jul 26, 2011:

I just found out "...personal riddles also;" and "...we fail to notice?" probably shouldn't be looked at and translated separately.

"這些本是哲學和數學方面的課題，卻也與人切身相關，叫人苦思不得其解：was it always just like this, and did we fail to notice?"

I decided to replace the semicolon after "personal riddles also" with other punctuation mark for the fluency of the target text.

jarv95888 Jul 26, 2011:

这些不仅是哲学和数学的问题，也是个人的谜题。
I think it is self-evident with the direct translation of the original text. The speaker is talking about the situation that even thought the most advanced scientific studies like physics and mathematics supposed to deal with objectivity have brought the core issue to the original point of subjectivity, the perceiving mind.
Those alluded examples are actually instances that the advanced theories of relativity and physics actually involve.