Ali hates it when his daughter tells lies.

Turkish translation: Ali kızının yalan söylemesinden nefret ediyor.

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

English term or phrase:	Ali hates it when his daughter tells lies.
Turkish translation:	Ali kızının yalan söylemesinden nefret ediyor.
Entered by:	Özden Arıkan

08:12 Jul 22, 2004

English to Turkish translations [Non-PRO]
Art/Literary - Linguistics

English term or phrase: Ali hates it when his daughter tells lies.

Here is another it + when structure that I'd like to discuss with you. It is slightly different from the 'She likes it when her children...'-sentence.
The sentence says that Ali's daughter tells lies, but it is not said how often. When she lies (what actually happens, because it is said 'when' and not 'if') Ali hates the behaviour of his daughter; he does not hate his daughter, of course. I think this is the intended message of the sentence.

When I translate now this sentence into Turkish, regarding the suggestions you made in the translations of the "She likes it when her children..."-sentence, I get:

Ali, kızının yalan söylemesinden nefret eder.

Is this translation correct, or does it imply that Ali's daughter always/continuously tells lies (what the English sentence certainly doesn't imply)? It seems to me that the connection (or interrelation) of 'hate' and the 'times when Ali's daughter tells lies' is not expressed in Turkish. (For me, this connection is also not expressed in the "She likes when her children..."-sentence.) I can't sort out this problem because Turkish is not my mother tongue, so I need your help.
Thanks in advance. Stefan

stra KudoZ activity Questions: 97 (3 open) (2 without valid answers) (1 closed without grading) Answers: 215
Local time: 06:34

Ali kýzýnýn yalan söylemesinden nefret ediyor (correct, but not colloquial)

Explanation:
In case the UTF/8859 encoding doesn't appear correctly, here it is in ASCII:

Ali kizinin yalan söylemesinden nefret ediyor. (As a previous poster noted, the continuous tense is more appropriate in Turkish than the present, even though the original uses present.)

This is perfectly acceptable for a workbook translation, but in real life it might be more likely to hear:

Ali kizinin yalan söyleme huyundan nefret ediyor.
Kizinin sürekli yalan söylemesi Ali için önemli bir sorun.

etc.

These alternatives add shades of meaning that are not in the original, so strictly speaking they're not "correct," but in a literary translation you would try to come up with an expression more along these lines.

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Note added at 5 hrs 41 mins (2004-07-22 13:54:36 GMT)
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Let\'s try Turkish letters as well:

Ali kızının yalan söylemesinden nefret ediyor.

Selected response from:

Nazim Aziz Gokdemir
Local time: 23:34

Grading comment

4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

5 +7

Ali kızının yalan söylemesinden nefret eder.

Serkan Doğan

5 +5

Ali kýzýnýn yalan söylemesinden nefret ediyor (correct, but not colloquial)

Nazim Aziz Gokdemir

5 +5

It's correct

murat Karahan

Discussion entries: 1

Answers

3 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +7

ali hates it when his daughter tells lies. Ali kızının yalan söylemesinden nefret eder.

Explanation:
yes this is correct Stefan, either it happens always or sometimes
"Ali kızı yalan söylediği zaman.." is a little different too, as you already argued.

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Note added at 6 mins (2004-07-22 08:19:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

We would love to help you, but maybe you need to see some Turkish grammer books, if any available, for full details. Regards.

Serkan Doğan
Türkiye
Local time: 06:34
Works in field
Native speaker of:

Turkish
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

shenay kharatekin: kelime hatası yapmışımm

4 mins

-> thank (?)

agree

Altug Isigan: exact phrase match :-) aynisini yazacaktim ben de.

33 mins

-> thank you :}

agree

Sweet Prince (X): /// Your welcome Mr.Serkân (Şapkalı a'ya dikkat) :=))) DDH'den selamlar.

1 hr

-> thank you mrs. ddh

agree

Nazim Aziz Gokdemir

6 hrs

-> thank you

agree

UTEB

15 hrs

-> thank you

agree

murat Karahan: virgül.... :)

2 days 8 hrs

-> thank you,

neutral

1964: Bu peergrade herkese: Nefret eder diye Türkçede bu tür bir kullanım pek uygun değildir aslında İngilizceden anlam tecavüzü denilebilir, Hiç hoşlanmaz veya tasvip etmez, çirkin bulur veya hiç hazzetmez şeklinde daha Türkçe olur.

3 days 9 hrs

-> thank

agree

Özden Arıkan

6 days

-> thank you

5 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +5

ali hates it when his daughter tells lies.

Ali kýzýnýn yalan söylemesinden nefret ediyor (correct, but not colloquial)

Nazim Aziz Gokdemir
Local time: 23:34
Native speaker of:

Turkish,

English
PRO pts in category: 4

33 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +5

ali hates it when his daughter tells lies. It's correct

Explanation:
I have to say so, otherwise my previous suggestion would be wrong :D
Anyway, in order to imply continuity the sentence would end with "ediyor", which is continous tense as you know. This way the translation of such a sentence from English to Turkish could be "Ali hates her daughter telling lies."

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Note added at 4 days (2004-07-26 18:08:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Dear Stefan
The major problem seems to me that we are all translators here, therefore we would go with the most acceptable answer, in other words by the structure which would be most common. So \"Ali, kızının yalan söylemesinden nefret ediyor.\" may not be the most grammatical equivalent, but if you look at it as a translator it is the most acceptable one (of course other suggestions are included in this-I\'m
not supposing that there is just one correct answer).
The last structure you suggested (and \"bundan\" is required in that sentence) is grammatically speaking correct, but this is textbook Turkish and doesn\'t reflect daily speech.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 days (2004-07-26 18:50:21 GMT)
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Tayfun\'a
Nefret etmek Türkçe\'de sıklıkla kullanılır. Diğer önerilerin dislike, loathe, despise vs gibi kelimelerle karşılanabilir. Hepsi eşanlamlı görünse bile aralarında \"şiddet\" açısından bir farklılık var. Böyle bir cümleye gelince, nasılsa bağlam da yok:
Ali, kızı yalan söylediğinde köpürür/hiddetlenir/.
Ali, kızının yalan söylemedinden tiksinir.

Bunlar da olası seçenekler ve hiçbiri uygun olmadığı şeklinde değerlendirilemez. Aslında öfkelenmek/çok kızmak kalıp olarak daha kullanışlı olsa da, gramer açısından istenen kaluba uymaz bu sefer.

murat Karahan
Türkiye
Local time: 06:34
Native speaker of: Turkish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

Sweet Prince (X)

54 mins

-> Teşekkür ederim.

agree

servet_000

5 hrs

-> Teşekkür ederim.

agree

Nazim Aziz Gokdemir

6 hrs

-> Teşekkür ederim.

agree

Guetta

3 days 12 hrs

-> Teşekkür ederim.

agree

Özden Arıkan

6 days

neutral

1964: birşeyi yapmasından nefret etmek kesinlikle türkçe değil ve aslında bir deyim yani onlarda nefret etmiyor olay biraz soğuduktan sonra üzerined düşünürseniz bunun otomat bir çeviririn kafamızda yer etmesinden kaynaklanan bir yanılsama olduğunu görürsünüz:)

6 days

-> Bir şeyden nefret etmek, bir şeyi yapmaktan nefret etmek ile bir şeyin yapılmasından nefret etmek arasındaki farkı da açıklayın o halde, ilüzyonun nerede olduğunu anlarsınız. Hepsi nesne (öbeği) +fiildir. Değilse tersini açıklayın.

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Ali hates it when his daughter tells lies.

Turkish translation: Ali kızının yalan söylemesinden nefret ediyor.

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Ali hates it when his daughter tells lies.

Turkish translation: Ali kızının yalan söylemesinden nefret ediyor.

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