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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

Marmelade de coing

English translation:

Quince marmalade

    The asker opted for community grading. The question was closed on 2013-09-26 18:54:14 based on peer agreement (or, if there were too few peer comments, asker preference.)
Sep 23, 2013 17:37
11 yrs ago
French term

Marmelade de coing

Non-PRO French to English Other Cooking / Culinary Menu à la carte
http://confituresmerveilleuses.pagesperso-orange.fr/pages/re...
Proposed translations (English)
4 +6 Quince marmalade
5 -1 quince jam
Change log

Sep 23, 2013 17:47: Evans (X) changed "Level" from "PRO" to "Non-PRO"

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (3): Tony M, Carol Gullidge, Evans (X)

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Discussion

Tony M Sep 27, 2013:
@ Lara Yes, and over here it's the same! Most of what you and I would call 'marmalade' is indeed sold as orange jam (though arguably cloudier and with less peel); I have only usually seen 'marmalade' used on actual imported English products. However, in recent years it seems to have become fashionable to use the term on restaurant menus, along with 'chutney' (which often bears little or no resemblance to what we think of as chutney in EN!), and I have noticed it creeping onto supermarket shelves etc.
My gut feeling is perhaps the FR were closer to keeping its original meaning (i.e. specifically quince), but that the meaning is now being extended, but certainly doesn't have the specific citrus connotation it has in EN. But I hasten to add this is purely extrapolation based on empirical observation ;-) (and sampling!)
Lara Barnett Sep 27, 2013:
@ Tony: Marmalade vs Jam The funny thing is about the usage difference of "jam" and "marmalade", is that most continental fruit spreads which are made from oranges, and sold over here in UK, seem to be labelled "orange jam" (as if the terms have been thrown back and forth and ended up displaced maybe): http://pantry.lepainquotidien.com/organic-sweet-orange-jam.h... and http://www.ocado.com/webshop/product/St-Dalfour-Thick-Cut-Or... and http://www.melburyandappleton.co.uk/organic-italian-orange-j...
rkillings Sep 24, 2013:
revived! Quince marmalade, that is: http://homecooking.about.com/od/jellyrecipes/r/bljelly46.htm
Not citrus-based, but with some lemons.
Kirsten Bodart Sep 24, 2013:
Oh, sorry, sorry, I didn't mean to be blunt I put that in my answer to this question, but there is probably a delay on the messages you receive, so pardon me. I was quite surprised too to find that was the case when I was researching it. Apparently the meaning moved from mere jam to citrus in the 17th century. To me personally, marmelade conveys the idea of a clear kind of chunky jelly (not smooth like normally) possibly with peal in it. That's not quince jam. Hence why I think marmalade is not the right word to use.
Tony M Sep 24, 2013:
Well pardon me for living! I just thought it was an interesting bit of etymological information to share with others. I didn't realize you already knew that, since you hadn't actually said so. I'm happy to admit that I didn't know it before, so I'm delighted to have now learnt something new.
Kirsten Bodart Sep 24, 2013:
I know that but it's not what was used once, it's about now. Marmalade now is only used primarily for citrus, so it shouldn't be used for quinces in English now. What it originally meant is not really of any concern, IMO.
Tony M Sep 24, 2013:
@ Kirsten Interestingly enough, not originally! See this definition from NS OED:

1) A preserve made by boiling fruits (originally quinces, now citrus fruit, spec. oranges) with sugar to form a consistent mass.

So it would seem that FR has retained the original meaning (listed by OED as L15 c.), while in EN we have tended to narrow the meaning.

And according to the etymology given, it comes from FR, from PT, via L, from GK, from the word used for 'quince'!
Kirsten Bodart Sep 24, 2013:
With all 3 of you on this Marmelade is only for citrus, isn't it? Even Wikipedia explains it at length. You can either make jam or jelly from quinces. Jelly would indeed be strained to get the clear thing. Jam would be thicker and grainier. And quinces are so hard that it takes a long time before you get jam from it, jelly is easier because you strain out the hard bits.
Tony M Sep 23, 2013:
@ Lara Strictly speaking, it always used to be 'jelly' one made from quince; but what they sell over here as 'marmelade' is certainly more like a jam. And 'gelée de coing' does also exist here, of course.
Lara Barnett Sep 23, 2013:
Quince Jam In UK we say "Quince jam" in my experience anyway.
Noni Gilbert Riley Sep 23, 2013:
Quince jam / jelly / paste Quince jam was what was in the jar last time I bought marmelade de coing.
Jelly would be clearer and of a very consistent texture, only straining will achieve this. Paste (which is what we eat it as largely in Spain) is far more cooking to achieve this consistency. All comments as per my kitchen ;-)

I use the word marmelade for citrus based jams....

Proposed translations

+6
4 mins
Selected

Quince marmalade

*
Reference:

http://https://www.google.fr/search?q=quince+marmalade&client=firefox-a&hs=geB&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=

Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M : Note it seems to have become fashionable here in France to call almost anything 'marmelade' these days, regardless of the ingredients. / Well, actually, apparently, the FR term came first, and we pinched it with a more restricted meaning.
1 min
agree Jennifer White : We always called it quince jam (hated it!) but your recipe looks like quince jelly.
5 mins
agree Noni Gilbert Riley
8 mins
agree writeaway : another tough one to figure out
58 mins
agree emiledgar : Jelly
2 hrs
agree Verginia Ophof
23 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Merci"
-1
16 hrs

quince jam

It is not because the French call everything marmalade that we should take over this false friend.

Marmalade, according to the dictionary, is at least 'clear and jellylike preserve made from the pulp and rind of fruits, esp. citrus' (American Heritage) or 'a preserve made by boiling the pulp and rind of citrus fruits, esp oranges, with sugar' (Collins).

Now, a quince is so hard that it would surprise me you could get pulp from that, let alone use the rind. And the jam will not be clear. You will need to strain it to make jelly if you want anything clear.

There are also only about 17,000 hits on Google for 'quince marmalade', whereas more than 70,000 for 'quince jam'. It would appear, then that you can't called this marmalade at all, although the word itself seems to originate from the very quince in Portuguese.
Reference:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/marmalade

Peer comment(s):
disagree writeaway : http://britishfoodhistory.wordpress.com/2013/01/23/the-origi... who is "we"? it's confiture de fraises in French in any case.
18 days
That may well be, but it does not change the fact that this originally used to be Portuguese quince paste like Spanish membrillo. and not jam at all. We would not call strawberry jam marmalade, would we.
Something went wrong...
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