Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
faire une mise en demeure
English translation:
serve notice on
Added to glossary by
Conor McAuley
Mar 19, 2021 11:54
3 yrs ago
47 viewers *
French term
faire une mise en demeure
French to English
Law/Patents
Law (general)
Promise of sale.
"Par suite, alors que la ou les conditions suspensives seraient réalisées et les documents nécessaires à la perfection de l'acte obtenus et que l'acte authentique de vente ne soit pas signé dans le délai convenu, la partie la plus diligente procédera par acte d'huissier au domicile élu aux présentes à une mise en demeure de signer l'acte authentique en l'office notarial du notaire sus-nommé.
Cette mise en demeure sera faite à jour et heure fixés entre le cinquième et le dixième jour ouvré suivant la réception de la mise en demeure."
I wasn't aware that a notice had a stage of "delivery" and a distinct stage of (what?) "enactment", "implementation", "execution", "performance", "activation", "doing", "triggering", "explosion"? It's like this notice is sort of on a timer. Anyone come across this?
"Par suite, alors que la ou les conditions suspensives seraient réalisées et les documents nécessaires à la perfection de l'acte obtenus et que l'acte authentique de vente ne soit pas signé dans le délai convenu, la partie la plus diligente procédera par acte d'huissier au domicile élu aux présentes à une mise en demeure de signer l'acte authentique en l'office notarial du notaire sus-nommé.
Cette mise en demeure sera faite à jour et heure fixés entre le cinquième et le dixième jour ouvré suivant la réception de la mise en demeure."
I wasn't aware that a notice had a stage of "delivery" and a distinct stage of (what?) "enactment", "implementation", "execution", "performance", "activation", "doing", "triggering", "explosion"? It's like this notice is sort of on a timer. Anyone come across this?
Proposed translations
(English)
Change log
Apr 2, 2021 13:03: Conor McAuley Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+7
23 mins
Selected
serve notice on
Standard.
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Note added at 27 mins (2021-03-19 12:22:11 GMT)
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Formal if you prefer.
https://www.proz.com/personal-glossaries/entry/4293212-mise-...
https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/general-convers...
I suppose "send a formal notice" would do as well.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2021-03-19 14:03:45 GMT)
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"Cette mise en demeure sera faite" > This/Said formal notice shall be served...
"...suivant la réception de la mise en demeure." > following receipt of the formal notice
OVERALL ANALYSIS: I think there's a mistake, in fact I'm 99% sure there's a mistake.
What goes on at the notary public's (solicitor's, if you want a UK equivalent) office is the SIGNATURE.
Should read: "La signature sera faite". NEEDS TO BE FLAGGED TO THE CLIENT.
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Note added at 10 hrs (2021-03-19 21:55:19 GMT)
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No mistake in the source, according to Cyril, a French native speaker.
Note from asker:
Thanks, but this doesn't really address the main difficulty: there appear to be two separate things going on here. Unless my suggestion in the discussion entry is along the right lines... |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Andrew Paul Kennett
: Serve a formal notice
17 mins
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Thanks Andrew!
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agree |
Angus Stewart
43 mins
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Thanks Angus!
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agree |
AllegroTrans
: serve formal notice on
56 mins
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Thanks Chris!
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agree |
philgoddard
: ...to sign the deed.
1 hr
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Thanks Phil!
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agree |
Lucy Teasdale
: To serve formal notice
1 hr
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Thanks Lucy!
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agree |
Cyril Tollari
: In my opinion this is a good translation for the last occurrence of mise en demeure. I could be wrong but I disagree on the mistake pointed out
9 hrs
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Thanks Cyril, and fair comment! My level of French is only "near-native".
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disagree |
Daryo
: there is no mistake in the ST + how would that fit with just the next word?
9 hrs
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;-)
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agree |
SafeTex
: I too don't think there is a mistake and it's the time of signature but otherwise, this is the right expression.
16 hrs
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Thanks SafeTex!
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agree |
Eliza Hall
2 days 3 hrs
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Thanks Eliza!
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
1 hr
notarial attendance : make > a formal demand ; E+W debt recovery > a statutory demand
Looks like I never a made good job - on the asker's recent, previous question of 'poursuivi au titre des *mesures* de faillite personnelle..' - of explaining and drawing a parallel with the preliminary stage of a 'mise en demeure' as a statutory demand that could in fact come in handy for translators' and interpreters' unpaid bills.
In this 'notice to attend' instance, there are also contempt of court-like sanctions for default, as with a court summons.
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Note added at 1 heure (2021-03-19 13:07:33 GMT)
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...I never made a good job..
In this 'notice to attend' instance, there are also contempt of court-like sanctions for default, as with a court summons.
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Note added at 1 heure (2021-03-19 13:07:33 GMT)
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...I never made a good job..
Example sentence:
summons: a call, signal or order to do something, esp to appear in person or attend at a specified place or time
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
AllegroTrans
: I fail to see why you cannot agree to Conor's answer or why you are mentioning debt recovery or statutory demands, which have no bearing in the context; also this isn't a notarial attendance, but a formal notice to attend at the notary's office
11 mins
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neutral |
Daryo
: you could make a parallel with debt recovery, but if you start by looking at the whole of "mise en demeure de signer" it makes it clearer.
18 hrs
|
-2
11 hrs
French term (edited):
une mise en demeure de signer (l'acte authentique en l'office notarial ..._
to present a formal demand / request to sign
both instances of "mise en demeure" are about one and same thing:
a formal request from one party to the other to show themselves in the notary's office and sign the contract
in the first occurrence of "mise en demeure", it's about the conditions that need to be satisfied before "faire une mise en demeure de signer", i.e.
1- les conditions suspensives seraient réalisées et les documents nécessaires à la perfection de l'acte obtenus => there are no more obstacles to signing the contract
2- l'acte authentique de vente ne soit pas signé dans le délai convenu => still nothing happened.
the second instance of "mise en demeure" is about the timing, the date and hour given to the other party to sign the contract - this "formal request to sign the contract" will specify a date and time for attending the notary's office in vue of signing the contract that will be between 5 and 10 days from the delivery of this "formal request to sign" (delivered in person by "un huissier" at the elected domicile of the other party)
Cette mise en demeure sera faite à jour et heure fixés entre le cinquième et le dixième jour ouvré suivant la réception de la mise en demeure.
=
This formal request will be made for the signing to be done at a set date and time, between the fifth and the tenth working day following the reception of the formal request.
Note: if the ST says "la réception" I wouldn't change that to "delivery" - as it's far from "being the same". There is a whole potential minefield better to be avoided, as there are different theories and practices as to when the other party is "presumed to have been informed" (when you put the envelope in the post? when the envelope was delivered? When the envelope was opened? When the letter was read?...)
You could see an analogy with "une mise en demeure de payer" - formal demand to pay
Yes, there are some parts "left implied" - because they are obvious from the context.
a formal request from one party to the other to show themselves in the notary's office and sign the contract
in the first occurrence of "mise en demeure", it's about the conditions that need to be satisfied before "faire une mise en demeure de signer", i.e.
1- les conditions suspensives seraient réalisées et les documents nécessaires à la perfection de l'acte obtenus => there are no more obstacles to signing the contract
2- l'acte authentique de vente ne soit pas signé dans le délai convenu => still nothing happened.
the second instance of "mise en demeure" is about the timing, the date and hour given to the other party to sign the contract - this "formal request to sign the contract" will specify a date and time for attending the notary's office in vue of signing the contract that will be between 5 and 10 days from the delivery of this "formal request to sign" (delivered in person by "un huissier" at the elected domicile of the other party)
Cette mise en demeure sera faite à jour et heure fixés entre le cinquième et le dixième jour ouvré suivant la réception de la mise en demeure.
=
This formal request will be made for the signing to be done at a set date and time, between the fifth and the tenth working day following the reception of the formal request.
Note: if the ST says "la réception" I wouldn't change that to "delivery" - as it's far from "being the same". There is a whole potential minefield better to be avoided, as there are different theories and practices as to when the other party is "presumed to have been informed" (when you put the envelope in the post? when the envelope was delivered? When the envelope was opened? When the letter was read?...)
You could see an analogy with "une mise en demeure de payer" - formal demand to pay
Yes, there are some parts "left implied" - because they are obvious from the context.
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Conor McAuley
: Compare with part of Adrian's answer, "a formal demand", which Daryo posted a Neutral for / It's a simple question of right and wrong, of morality. It's not your first "offence".
10 hrs
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explanations - the right one - are secondary?
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disagree |
SafeTex
: "request to sign??? This is not about autograph hunters !!! How can you be so demanding when it comes to others and so flippant when you make a suggestion? You don't have the right jargon, register or level of formaility
12 hrs
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"autograph hunters"? well, with some poetic licence you could call them that. Although for the "autograph hunters" in this ST the stakes are far higher ...
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disagree |
AllegroTrans
: No "request" here, it's a final notice to "sign or else" and you don't "present" a formal demand, you serve it (usually through a bailiff); I completely fail to see why you diagreee with Conor's answer
17 hrs
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No "request" here? When you are making explicit to the other party that you expect them to honour their part of a deal, it's not a "request"? Then what it is? Merely a "polite suggestion"? Here it's the same as a "demand / request" to pay owed money.
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4 days
French term (edited):
mise en demeure faite à (+ time element)
notice drafted so as to include (+ time element)
mise en demeure faite à (+ time element)
>
"notice drafted so as to include" (+ time element)
I've changed the text of the question because I'm not sure that the parsing is right.
The source text is neither a mistake, nor is it drafted clumsily, as there are several occurrences on the Net from reliable sources, like public bodies.
In any case, cette refers to the previous mise en demeure de signer l'acte authentique. Bearing this in mind and the fact that it can't be a mistake, I understand cette mise en demeure sera faite as meaning that said notice will be drafted in such a way that it will state when the signing must take place. To my mind, while faire une mise en demeure can mean "deliver a notice" in another context or indeed at the end of the sentence quoted by Mpoma, here (at the beginning of the sentence), it means "drafted in such a way that (it will state etc.)". And faite à reinforces my understanding. If "delivery" was meant, we would have something like faite par pli recommandé.
Cf. Cette mise en demeure sera faite avec un préavis de cinq (5) Jours Ouvrés. (https://www.loire-atlantique.gouv.fr/content/download/33795/... See also: (Le compl. désigne une œuvre d'art, un ouvrage intellectuel). ➙ Composer, créer, écrire. Faire un poème, un sonnet. (Le Grand Robert de la langue française).
"Drafted so as to include" does sound clumsy and may not be the word English-speaking lawyers and sollicitors will use here, but I think that's the idea. "This notice shall provide that..."?
Discussion
But there is something awkward here - commonsense says that it is the appointment with the notary that will be fixed, not service of the notice
I think this is a d(r)afting error
I withdraw my remark that I cannot see an error - read this in too much haste. Apologies to Conor
Glimmering through the mist of recollection I think I can see the wraith of an expression such as "Mise en demeure à jour et heure fixés..." (i.e. essentially meaning "notice FOR AN APPOINTMENT at a set date and time"). Is this what you had in mind?
NB just did a search on "Mise en demeure à jour et heure fixés"... no ghits. But it did come up with this, for example: "avec sommation à jour et heure fixes de se présenter au greffe"... (NB idea of appointment not implicit).
I think the context (preceding sentence of ST) is crucial, and I also now think the future tense of "sera faite" is used from the perspective of the writer/reader of the promesse, reading now, not relative to the time of service. By this reading, the fully expanded phrase would be "Cette mise en demeure sera faite pour convocation à jour et heure ...". I think this omission is not really acceptable in a promesse, but I now suspect that most readers of this document would understand this to be meaning, given the preceding sentence.
Intend to flag it however.
The point being, how do you translate "faite" if the formal notice has been "served" already?
What goes on at the notary public's (solicitor's, if you want a UK equivalent) office is the SIGNATURE.
Should read: "La signature sera faite" or similar. NEEDS TO BE FLAGGED TO THE CLIENT.