Apr 28, 2008 09:56
16 yrs ago
French term
salle/chambre du conseil
French to English
Other
Ships, Sailing, Maritime
Hi
From "my" 74-gun ship...
"Le commandant mange dans la salle du conseil"
and later
"La chambre du conseil est à l'usage exclusif du commandant et lui sert de salle d'état-major, de salle à manger et de salon."
From what I've read, the Great Cabin is divided into a day cabin, a dining cabin and sleeping quarters, none of which seem to fit. Perhaps "salle de conseil" *is* the "great cabin"? Or something as simple as a "council chamber" or "counsel chamber" although I haven't found anything to support that guess.
Your help will be greatly appreciated!
From "my" 74-gun ship...
"Le commandant mange dans la salle du conseil"
and later
"La chambre du conseil est à l'usage exclusif du commandant et lui sert de salle d'état-major, de salle à manger et de salon."
From what I've read, the Great Cabin is divided into a day cabin, a dining cabin and sleeping quarters, none of which seem to fit. Perhaps "salle de conseil" *is* the "great cabin"? Or something as simple as a "council chamber" or "counsel chamber" although I haven't found anything to support that guess.
Your help will be greatly appreciated!
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +1 | great cabin |
Graham macLachlan
|
| 4 +2 | Captain's state-room |
Pierre POUSSIN
|
Proposed translations
+1
39 mins
Selected
great cabin
this may be a viable alternative as "stateroom" seems to the generic for a number of rooms aboard ship
Nelson explains his battle plan to his excited captains in the great cabin of HMS Victory on 29 September 1805. Watercolour by Daniel Orme. ...
www.jmr.nmm.ac.uk/server?outputFormat=print&setPaginate=No&...
Great cabin:
Found at the stern (back) this provides the most comfortable living space on the ship. Divided into 3 areas, it consists of the day and dining cabins plus the bed space. These were partitioned from the rest of the deck by wooden panels that could be removed during a battle. This would allow the great cabin to be turned into part of the upper gun deck
http://www.hms-victory.com/index.php?option=com_content&task...
STEERAGE, an apartment without the great cabin of a ship, from which it is separated by a thin partition. In large ships of war it is used as a hall through which it is necessary to pass, to arrive at, or depart from the great cabin. In merchant-ships it is generally the habitation of the inferior officers and ship's crew. See also BIRTH.
http://southseas.nla.gov.au/refs/falc/1275.html
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Note added at 1 hr (2008-04-28 11:39:02 GMT)
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First off, get away from the "captain's cabin" idea because "captain" was a rank and not necessarily the most important person aboard.
The only problem with "stateroom" is that there could have been several on a 74-gun ship.
The Victory link describes how the cabin was partitioned into three and how it could be cleared away so it was a very adaptable space, the link below describes it being used for dining and planning ('planning' being the idea of 'conseil'):
In the great cabin, you'll see Admiral Nelson's quarters. Imagine Nelson and his officers dining at the elegant table—or hunched over maps here to plan an ...
books.google.co.uk/books?isbn=1598800973...
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Note added at 1 hr (2008-04-28 11:45:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Indeed, your 74-gun may not have had a "captain" but a "commander" or a "lieutenant":
The 74-gun ship eventually became the most popular size of warship as ... on 18 September 1805 under the captaincy of First Lieutenant John Pilford. ...
www.sole.org.uk/nelson.htm
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2008-04-28 11:59:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Your ship seems to have a "commandant", so a "commander" and not yet a "captain":
Captain
an officer in the navy ranking below a rear admiral and above a commander or lieutenant.
OED
However:
Captain
Also a courtesy title, a commander. M16.
OED
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2008-04-28 12:00:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Commander
a naval officer ranking next below a captain LME
OED
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2008-04-28 12:31:50 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
This is what Falconer says circa 1780 on the subject of cabins, and he does mention the "great cabin" elsewhere without giving it its own entry but he doesn't mention "stateroom" even though the OED dates the word to M17:
CABIN, (cabane, Fr.) a room, or the apartment in a ship where any of the officers usually reside.
There are many of these in a large ship; the principal of which is designed for the captain, or commander.
http://southseas.nla.gov.au/refs/falc/0246.html
Nelson explains his battle plan to his excited captains in the great cabin of HMS Victory on 29 September 1805. Watercolour by Daniel Orme. ...
www.jmr.nmm.ac.uk/server?outputFormat=print&setPaginate=No&...
Great cabin:
Found at the stern (back) this provides the most comfortable living space on the ship. Divided into 3 areas, it consists of the day and dining cabins plus the bed space. These were partitioned from the rest of the deck by wooden panels that could be removed during a battle. This would allow the great cabin to be turned into part of the upper gun deck
http://www.hms-victory.com/index.php?option=com_content&task...
STEERAGE, an apartment without the great cabin of a ship, from which it is separated by a thin partition. In large ships of war it is used as a hall through which it is necessary to pass, to arrive at, or depart from the great cabin. In merchant-ships it is generally the habitation of the inferior officers and ship's crew. See also BIRTH.
http://southseas.nla.gov.au/refs/falc/1275.html
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-04-28 11:39:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
First off, get away from the "captain's cabin" idea because "captain" was a rank and not necessarily the most important person aboard.
The only problem with "stateroom" is that there could have been several on a 74-gun ship.
The Victory link describes how the cabin was partitioned into three and how it could be cleared away so it was a very adaptable space, the link below describes it being used for dining and planning ('planning' being the idea of 'conseil'):
In the great cabin, you'll see Admiral Nelson's quarters. Imagine Nelson and his officers dining at the elegant table—or hunched over maps here to plan an ...
books.google.co.uk/books?isbn=1598800973...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-04-28 11:45:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Indeed, your 74-gun may not have had a "captain" but a "commander" or a "lieutenant":
The 74-gun ship eventually became the most popular size of warship as ... on 18 September 1805 under the captaincy of First Lieutenant John Pilford. ...
www.sole.org.uk/nelson.htm
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2008-04-28 11:59:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Your ship seems to have a "commandant", so a "commander" and not yet a "captain":
Captain
an officer in the navy ranking below a rear admiral and above a commander or lieutenant.
OED
However:
Captain
Also a courtesy title, a commander. M16.
OED
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2008-04-28 12:00:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Commander
a naval officer ranking next below a captain LME
OED
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2008-04-28 12:31:50 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
This is what Falconer says circa 1780 on the subject of cabins, and he does mention the "great cabin" elsewhere without giving it its own entry but he doesn't mention "stateroom" even though the OED dates the word to M17:
CABIN, (cabane, Fr.) a room, or the apartment in a ship where any of the officers usually reside.
There are many of these in a large ship; the principal of which is designed for the captain, or commander.
http://southseas.nla.gov.au/refs/falc/0246.html
Note from asker:
| Hello Graham - I did consider "great cabin" but that seems to be the whole of the captain's cabin whereas this "chambre" would be just one part of it. What do you think? |
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "A tricky one. I chose great cabin because I've seen the "captain's cabin" referred to as this in several references and it avoids confusion if there can be several state rooms. Thank you (once again) Graham, and Irat. "
+2
8 mins
Pierre POUSSIN
France
France
Native in French
Works in field
France
Fast and accurate.
Native in: French (Variant: Standard-France) 
Works in: English to French, French to English, Latin to French, and 2 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
24
Captain's state-room
But they would often use :"Wardroom" as for "The Officers'Wardroom"
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Graham macLachlan
: "stateroom" without "Captain's"//brave man!
23 mins
|
|
Yes! You're right! Sorry! I will kiss the gunner's daughter! ;-)
|
|
| agree |
Jack Dunwell
: Can you explain the gunner's daughter ref? Was it on the gundeck that it all happened?
6 hrs
|
|
Thanks! It was a punishment: the "culprit" was lashed on a deck-gun and got the nine-o-tail cat several times, and that was known as "kissing the gunner's daughter!
|
Discussion
http://www.freewebs.com/maritime-history-2nd-edidtion/chapte...
The quarter deck above the great cabin was surmounted by a poop deck which sheltered the captain's private cabin.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/monitor/tour07.html
Captain's Stateroom
The captain's stateroom lay across a narrow passageway from the captain's cabin. In this lavishly furnished room, the captain entertained important visitors and conducted day-to-day business.
A captain's or superior officer's room on board ship. M17.
OED