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abandon exprès de revenus ou de produits
Lecteurs Dernière Période (LDP)
Mar 7, 2007 14:04
17 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term

ou à défaut, dans le cas où pour des raisons de force majeure

French to English Law/Patents Law (general) Shipping documents
It is item 3. below with which I need help. Not sure if it's just me, or whether the structure of the sentence in French is a bit off...(it IS from a contract, so it may be a question of 'contractese') but I would be most grateful if someone could help me to straighten it out and confirm that I have interpreted it correctly. My effort is below the context.

Documents d’expédition

Documents à envoyer directement par canal bancaire :

1. Factures commerciales en 10 exemplaires avec le numéro du tarif douanier de chaque produit, datées et signées par le Vendeur

2. Liste de colisage et de poids, en deux exemplaires

3. 2/3 du connaissement original ‘ON BOARD' établis au nom de la Banque de l’Acheteur/pays ***ou à défaut, dans le cas où pour des raisons de force majeure, d’impossibilité de décharger le matériel dans le pays de l’Acheteur ou pour des raisons imputables à
l’Acheteur **, un certificat de mise en entrepôt notify ordonnateur mentionnant fret payé
4. Certificat de conformité établi par le Vendeur
5. Copie du document douanier EX 1

2/3 (I'm understanding this to mean two of the 3 parts of this document) of the 'ON BOARD' bill of lading made out in the name of the Purchaser's bank/country or, failing that, and in the event that for reasons of force majeure, or for reasons attributable to the Purchaser, it has not been possible to unload the equipment in the Purchaser's country.... etc.

Am I right to move the 'or for reasons attributable to the Purchaser' bit? Otherwise, it doesn't really make sense if left in the same order as the French...?
Proposed translations (English)
3 +3 help with sentence -- see below
1 +2 See comments below...
3 see under
Change log

Jun 4, 2011 07:54: Stéphanie Soudais (X) changed "Term asked" from "help with sentence" to "ou à défaut, dans le cas où pour des raisons de force majeure" , "Field (specific)" from "Transport / Transportation / Shipping" to "Law (general)"

Jun 4, 2011 07:54: Stéphanie Soudais (X) changed "Removed from KOG" from "force majeure clause details > (see explanation) by <a href="/profile/21113">French2English</a>" to "Reason: No source/translation provided"

Discussion

French2English (asker) Mar 7, 2007:
...oops, hit return too soon - and I think all answerers are in fact singing from the same hymn sheet..
French2English (asker) Mar 7, 2007:
Maureen and Robert... ...both of your answers make a lot of sense too..
French2English (asker) Mar 7, 2007:
Note for David: Yes indeed...that was precisely the sort of thing I was imagining - good, old-fashioned carbon copies! Who says the world has moved on? I do remember having actually seen a BOL once in my dim and distant past, when I worked in an export department. I wonder if they still use telex to announce the shipping of goods...they certainly did back then, but I am talking 20 years ago or more. Anyway, I always think of shipping as being a somewhat quaint and old-fashioned - especially when it involves actual ships. Thanks for your input.
French2English (asker) Mar 7, 2007:
Note for Tony: Thanks... and in fact this was precisely the reason I put this sentence out there...I was actually more inclined to think that I simply didn't grasp it than assume it was an error...or bad drafting...and, as your analysis appears to illustrate, there was in fact more to it than met the initial eye...I am glad to see that it could have been read differently by others too. Very helpful, thanks.
David Goward Mar 7, 2007:
In addition to agreeing with Tony below, I understand the BOL to be a self-copying form - the sort of form where you have three different-coloured sheets and have to press down hard with your pen! It seems that one is kept and the other two sent on.

Proposed translations

+3
45 mins
French term (edited): help with sentence
Selected

help with sentence -- see below

I read the sentence differently, adding implicitly "pour des raisons" before "d'impossibilité". The logic of the sentence would then be:

2/3 du connaissement original ‘ON BOARD' établis au nom de la Banque de l’Acheteur/pays ***ou à défaut,
[dans le cas où
1. pour des raisons de force majeure,
2. pour des raisons d’impossibilité de décharger le matériel dans le pays de l’Acheteur ou
3. pour des raisons imputables à l’Acheteur **,]
un certificat de mise en entrepôt notify ordonnateur mentionnant fret payé

Even if I can't see one right now, there might be a situation where "force majeure" is not a synonym of "raisons d’impossibilité de décharger", maybe for economical reasons that are independant of the Purchaser's will, but nevertheless not a real force majeure.

Anyhow, I wouldn't change the order of the French sentence.
Peer comment(s):
agree Raymonde Gagnier : I agree, it might simply refer to customs clearance or something...
4 hrs
agree Veronica Coquard : Exactly, custom clearance is what comes to mind.
22 hrs
agree Natasha Dupuy
1 day 4 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Graded on the number of 'agrees' - although Tony's answer very nearly made it!"
+2
15 mins
French term (edited): help with sentence

See comments below...

At first reading, I read it the same way as you.

HOWEVER, I can see that there might be more to it than meets the eye, and the word order might be deliberate (though flawed!)

I think it might be:

dans le cas d’impossibilité de décharger le matériel dans le pays de l’Acheteur (pour des raisons de force majeure), ou pour des raisons imputables à l’Acheteur,

In other words, the 'force majeure' applies ONLY to the impossiiblity of unloading in the given country, and the 'raisons imputables à l'acheteur' relate to different reasons, nothing to do with force majeure.

In other words, only 'force majeure' could prevent unloading..., even though there might be other reasons for this particular action being taken; but I freely admit it is very unclear, and I'm only brainstorming to see if we can untangle this all together!
Peer comment(s):
agree David Goward : I think you're right and that the "où" following "dans le cas" is superfluous. I also think it's better to stick quite closely to the French in such cases!!
3 mins
Thanks, David! Well, I think one needs to study very carefully and look for other solutions, before assuming an error!
agree Graham macLachlan
11 mins
Thanks, mactrad!
Something went wrong...
22 mins
French term (edited): help with sentence

see under

I would understand this as being:
...for reasons of force majeure, or that it has not been possible to unload the equipment in the Purchaser's country,or for *other* reasons attributable to the Purchaser... etc.
*other* (my addition) reasons could be order cancellation etc.
Something went wrong...
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