Jul 3, 2014 15:38
10 yrs ago
12 viewers *
German term

qualifiziert die Störungsmeldung

German to English Law/Patents Law: Contract(s)
Whole sentence: "Der Auftraggeber qualifiziert die Störungsmeldung, soweit es ihm zu diesem Zeitpunkt der Meldung an den Auftragnehmer möglich ist."

I can't see how qualifizieren fits into this sentence - does it have an extra meaning of something similar to assess?

Discussion

Yorkshireman Jul 6, 2014:
@MMMA Thank you.
The problem here is that we do not know what the contract - if it is indeed a contract, and not a simple agreement - covers. It may be about provision of goods or services (in its most simple form), but could just as well be about the fulfillment or non-fulfillment of fundamental, contractually agreed, terms (Geschäftsgrundlage), which could, in the worst-case scenario, lead to termination of the contract by the one or the other party.

Here, in particular, we have two ends of an extremely broad spectrum in which both simple and complex answers may have equal validity until the true context is known.

The crux of the matter is, in fact, the meaning of "Störungsmeldung" in the question, which, in turn, leads us to the translation of "qualifizieren"
Michael Martin, MA Jul 6, 2014:
@Yorkshireman I apologize for appearing disrespectful and agree I should have couched my disagreement with your disagreement in more agreeable language. I have no interest in calling your English language skills into question. I am more concerned about German skills in this particular case. What I am seeing here is source language expertise pitted against target language expertise. Usually, target language expertise wins out – not always with justification, IMO. My point is that even the best dictionaries only provide translations in isolation and are notoriously unreliable in covering idiomatic idiosyncrasies especially with a language as fragmented into different jargons as German. Assuming this were true or even relevant in this case, it would be hard to bring target language expertise to bear on a translation problem, if the source language hasn’t been sorted out. At this point, I don’t even care whether that’s the case or not. I could be totally wrong. But as a general note, I would argue there’s a need for German speakers to weigh in more on these debates. For various reasons though, I don’t think that’s likely to happen. I, for one, I enjoy posting solutions much more than discussing them
Yorkshireman Jul 5, 2014:
@Asker Hi Ben,
could you provide more context?

What kind of contract/agreement is it?

Does Störung refer to a disruption of services, failure to deliver, unexpected delays in deliveries/payment, unfulfilled terms of the contract...
Yorkshireman Jul 5, 2014:
Re: It's not very becoming The insinuation that I do not understand the question and rely solely on dictionary definitions and have a grasp only of simple English - I quote your comment on my justified disagreement:

"It's not enough to know dictionary definitions and simple English. You actuallly need to understand the source text."

(you can perform your own spelling corrections!, it is, after all simple English!)

is on the verge of personal insult and a thinly veiled attack on my professional integrity.
Yorkshireman Jul 4, 2014:
Etymology for qualify late Middle English (in the sense ‘describe in a particular way’): from French qualifier, from medieval Latin qualificare, from Latin qualis ‘of what kind, of such a kind’

In effect:
How serious (of what kind is/how would you describe) the failure to comply with the terms of the contract.

Which, considering that English law has its roots in French, could even better justify its use in this answer
Yorkshireman Jul 4, 2014:
Qualify/Qualification The qualification of a statement is, for instance, how far reaching the repercussions of an event may be.

A simpler word, would of course, be something like "rating", "classification" (as proposed by our dear colleague Mr Swift), "evaluation", or "assessment".

In legal terms, the Störungsmneldnung" could well be almost anything from a "notice of non-fulfillment", "notice of non-compliance with contractual terms, "failure to deliver" but, without further context, it is almost impossible to say.

But why, with very few exceptions, is everyone steering clear of qualification - what I am missing here is a qualified answer :-) Qualification and quantification are commonly used terms in a multitude of segments. Note also that "quality" does not necessarily have to be a positive factor.
Michael Martin, MA Jul 4, 2014:
It's not very becoming.. .. to tell people what language to use..
Lancashireman Jul 4, 2014:
In answer to SelecTra: 1) You can 'specify the nature' of an interruption to service, but by 'specifying a notification or a report', you would be distinguishing it from an earlier notification or a report.
2) There will be various classes of breakdown, and the supplier will expect the client to 'classify' along these lines.
3) Fehler = failure is a classic false friend.

If you intend to make definitive statements on the DE>EN board about the correct use of English and wish to be taken seriously, you should do so in the target language.

Proposed translations

+1
34 mins
Selected

classifies

Have a look at
https://www.bsi.bund.de/DE/Themen/ITGrundschutz/ITGrundschut...
which is about Qualifizieren und Bewerten von Sicherheitsvorfällen - the text under the heading is about Klassifizierung.

but see also
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=YKNQeqvm1KQC&pg=PA215&lpg...

which says:
"... Das Dritte ist die Feststellung, daß man im englischsprachigen Bereich für die Qualifikation nicht einmal ein einheitliches Wort gefunden hat und teils von "characterization", teils von "classification" spricht."
Peer comment(s):

agree Lancashireman : ... is (required) to classify ...
7 mins
disagree SelecTra : "classifies" würde eine Einordnung in irgendeine Schublade bedeuten, hier ist aber IMO (da stimme ich Michael Martin zu) einfach eine genauere Beschreibung der Störung gemeint.
21 hrs
agree Yorkshireman : A decent answer. Though I would say that the repercussions of a reported event can just as well be qualified with regard to their effect on a contractual agreement - e.g. do they go so far as to be a breach of contract
1 day 4 hrs
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3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
20 mins

characterise/define (clearly) the disruption notification

qualifizieren can also mean to clearly characterise/define the Problem. I.e. to give clear description of the existing problem.

Hope that helps!
Peer comment(s):

neutral Yorkshireman : Defines is OK - as long as you add what is defined, i.e. how serious the problem is, i.e. you qualify it.
1 day 4 hrs
Something went wrong...
20 hrs

further specifies the failure notification/report

That's the meaning of "qualifizieren" in this context with little room for misunderstanding. "Classify", on the other hand, can mean a host of things without necessarily taking you in the right direction..

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Note added at 1 day3 hrs (2014-07-04 19:24:31 GMT)
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There may or may not have been a previous failure report. The German leaves that open so that’s not a clincher in any case. Further, the idea that I fell victim to a false friend is absurd. Considering the term to be translated was Störungsmeldung, I’m not the one who dragged the unnecessary comparison between Fehler and failure into the discussion.
Peer comment(s):

agree SelecTra
2 hrs
disagree Yorkshireman : It does not specify anything. To qualify an event or an occurrence is simple and common English. Read my references - I've been English for over 60 years. And I do understand what specify/specifies means, in all its uses - with and without dictionaries!
9 hrs
That doesn't get the intended message across. It's not enough to know dictionary definitions and simple English. You actuallly need to understand the source text..
Something went wrong...
+1
1 day 6 hrs

shall qualify the notification of change of circumstances

Or something like: ...shall as far as possible qualify the gravity of the interference with the basis of the business agreement/contract/transaction at the time of notification.

"Interference with the basis of the transaction: ‘(1) If circumstances which became the basis of a contract have
significantly changed since the contract was entered into and if the parties would not have entered into the contract
or would have entered into it with different contents if they had foreseen this change, adaptation of the contract may
be demanded to the extent that, taking account of all the circumstances of the specific case, in particular the
contractual or statutory distribution of risk, one of the parties cannot reasonably be expected to uphold the contract
without alteration.
(2) It is equivalent to a change of circumstances if material conceptions that have become the basis of the contract
are found to be incorrect.
(3) If adaptation of the contract is not possible or one party cannot reasonably be expected to accept it, the
disadvantaged party may withdraw from the contract. In the case of continuing obligations, the right to terminate
takes the place of the right to withdraw.’
Note that ‘circumstances which became the basis of a contract’ signifies those circumstances ‘that should be implied
by the common will of the parties without having been formally integrated in the contract itself. Amongst these
circumstances it is possible to cite the maintenance of monetary stability, the equivalence of the benefit and counterbenefit,
the constancy of the stipulated price, the possibility of getting identical goods … but also the persistence of
the legislation in force, obtaining a building permit … the list is not limited’, (M. Pédamon, op. cit. n°172).
234 See also W.-T. Schneider ‘La codification d’institutions prétoriennes’, La réforme du droit allemand des
obligations (Colloque du 31 mai 2002 et nouveaux aspects), dir. C. Witz et F. Ranieri, Soc. Législ. Comp. 2004, p.44
onwards. ‘The adaptation of the contractual relationship of obligation to change of circumstance (Anpassung an die
veränderten Umstände) rests on a specific provision, even if it continues to root itself in § 242’, (M. Pédamon, op.
cit. n°170)."

See also: § 313 BGB233 (Störung der Geschäftsgrundlage) - interference with the basis of the business agreement/transaction (my translation)

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Note added at 2 days7 hrs (2014-07-05 23:16:33 GMT)
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More about Störung der Geschäftsgrundlage - which is what the Meldung applies to:

Unzumutbarkeit

An den gesetzlichen Regelungen über die Zumutbarkeit zeigt sich, dass die Problematik ursprünglich von der Rechtsordnung im Kontext der Bestimmung des § 242 BGB über Treu und Glauben diskutiert worden ist. Um einen Fall der – durchgreifenden – Störung der Geschäftsgrundlage anzunehmen, darf demjenigen, der sich auf die Störung berufen will, das Festhalten am Vertrage nicht zugemutet werden können, umgekehrt muss die Anpassung oder Auflösung des Vertrages dem Vertragspartner zumutbar sein. Die hierzu erforderlichen Wertungen sollen anhand der Umstände des Einzelfalls und der gesetzlichen Risikoverteilung und Risikozuweisung vorzunehmen sein. In jedem Falle unzumutbar ist die Vertragsänderung dem anderen Teil, wenn derjenige, der sich auf die Störung der Geschäftsgrundlage berufen will, diese selbst schuldhaft herbeigeführt hat.

Andererseits stellt § 313 BGB gerade darauf ab, dass ein Festhalten an einem unveränderten Vertrag dem Schuldner nicht zugemutet werden kann. Das Leistungsinteresse des Gläubigers wird damit ausgeblendet.

Rechtsfolgen

Rechtsfolge der Störung der Geschäftsgrundlage ist ein Anspruch auf Anpassung des Vertrages an die neuen Verhältnisse, soweit dies möglich ist. Eine Modifikation des Vertrages wird aber nur dann verlangt werden können, wenn sie für den anderen Teil günstiger ist als die Rückabwicklung des Vertrages. Andernfalls ist der Vertrag nach den Grundsätzen des Rücktritts abzuwickeln. Bei Dauerschuldverhältnissen, wie Arbeits- oder Mietverhältnissen tritt wegen der Schwierigkeit der Rückabwicklung an die Stelle des Rücktritts das Recht zur außerordentlichen Kündigung des Vertrages.

Eine Störung der Geschäftsgrundlage hat nach ständiger Rechtsprechung des BGH in der Regel nicht die Auflösung des Vertrages zur Folge, sondern führt zur Anpassung seines Inhalts an die veränderten Umstände in einer Form, die den berechtigten Interessen beider Parteien Rechnung trägt.[10] Ein Wandel in der höchstrichterlichen Rechtsprechung kann zu Störungen der Vertragsgrundlage führen, die nach den Regeln des Wegfalls der Geschäftsgrundlage zu behandeln sind.[11]

Die Geschäftsgrundlage darf nicht mit dem Geschäftsinhalt verwechselt werden. Zu letzterem gehören alle vertraglichen und gesetzlichen Regelungen, insbesondere die Verteilung der typischen Geschäftsrisiken auf die Vertragspartner.[12] Daher betrifft die Geschäftsgrundlage nur Umstände, die nicht ausdrücklicher Vertragsinhalt geworden sind.[13]
Peer comment(s):

agree Lancashireman : Qualifying the gravity, of course. A case of the Emperor's new clothes.
38 mins
Indeed!
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