Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Latin term or phrase:
ferrè
English translation:
made - - XIX century confusion - fero,- ere,tuli, latum(Latin)/
Added to glossary by
Veronica Durbaca
Jun 20, 2002 21:01
22 yrs ago
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Latin term
United Kingdom
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ferrè
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tourism text
Hi. This is from a tourist guide. The paragraph I extracted it from reads as follows:
"There are many points of interest inside the building, among which is a splendid Liberty style balcony made by Alessandro Mazzucotelli in wrought iron. On it is the unusual inscription “Ave Mariani, pictor celeberrime, el to lisander ferrè”"
In other words: Hail Mariani, most famous painter, your Alexander ?????
"There are many points of interest inside the building, among which is a splendid Liberty style balcony made by Alessandro Mazzucotelli in wrought iron. On it is the unusual inscription “Ave Mariani, pictor celeberrime, el to lisander ferrè”"
In other words: Hail Mariani, most famous painter, your Alexander ?????
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
+1
1 day 20 hrs
Veronica Durbaca
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made - - XIX century confusion - fero,- ere,tuli, latum(Latin)/
all the new Romance languages: fare(Italian)/faire (Fr.)/ a face (Romanian)
el to lisander ferrè - is not latin.
* el - is an article; the article does not exist in Latin; it does exist only in modern Romance languages (this one could be Spanish);
* to - could be tuo, i.e. Latin, Italian or other Romance language, not French nor Romanian
* Lisander - could be Alexander, but can also be a distinct name
- no matter the language, it is a nominative, a subject, and it means it needs a verb. so, I believe the last word is a verb.
* ferrè is, as far as I can tell, not an adjective, because there would be no verb there, and there must be one.
the meaning of the verb is not the meaning of the verb in Latin (which means to bear), but the one in modern Romance languages - no matter which one, as all are derived from latina vulgata, the early medioeval Latin - the meaning in the last one is to make.
the person who wrote the inscription used words that generally looked like Latin. their meaning however is not to be found in Latin words.
Hope I could help.
veruzza (Ro)
el to lisander ferrè - is not latin.
* el - is an article; the article does not exist in Latin; it does exist only in modern Romance languages (this one could be Spanish);
* to - could be tuo, i.e. Latin, Italian or other Romance language, not French nor Romanian
* Lisander - could be Alexander, but can also be a distinct name
- no matter the language, it is a nominative, a subject, and it means it needs a verb. so, I believe the last word is a verb.
* ferrè is, as far as I can tell, not an adjective, because there would be no verb there, and there must be one.
the meaning of the verb is not the meaning of the verb in Latin (which means to bear), but the one in modern Romance languages - no matter which one, as all are derived from latina vulgata, the early medioeval Latin - the meaning in the last one is to make.
the person who wrote the inscription used words that generally looked like Latin. their meaning however is not to be found in Latin words.
Hope I could help.
veruzza (Ro)
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks. A very difficult one, specially not knowing exactly what language is involved!"
1 hr
John Kinory (X)
John Kinory (X)
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made (you)
To my sleep-deprived brain, that seems to be the answer ...
2 hrs
eleni sakka
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made of iron..
Dear Fiona, Latin is not my main speciality but I found something that might shed some light. Interestingly it has to do with iron:
ferr
ferramenta : tools made of iron, or shod with iron.
ferrarius : of iron / a blacksmith / iron mines.
ferratilis : in chains (slaves and prisoners).
ferratus : a soldier in armor / in chains (as a slave) / furnished with iron.
ferreus : made of iron / hard, unfeeliing, cruel, unbending.
ferrugineus : rust colored, dusky.
ferrugo : the color of rust.
ferrum : iron, sword.
prae se ferre / pre se ferre : to show, exhibit, on account of.
Alessandro Mazzucotelli was a 19th century ornamental ironworker in Italy, whose main emphasis was on art nouveau.
It seems to me that atthe end of the sentence he is referring to himself possibly calling himself: Iron (adjective) Alexander.
Just a thought....
ferr
ferramenta : tools made of iron, or shod with iron.
ferrarius : of iron / a blacksmith / iron mines.
ferratilis : in chains (slaves and prisoners).
ferratus : a soldier in armor / in chains (as a slave) / furnished with iron.
ferreus : made of iron / hard, unfeeliing, cruel, unbending.
ferrugineus : rust colored, dusky.
ferrugo : the color of rust.
ferrum : iron, sword.
prae se ferre / pre se ferre : to show, exhibit, on account of.
Alessandro Mazzucotelli was a 19th century ornamental ironworker in Italy, whose main emphasis was on art nouveau.
It seems to me that atthe end of the sentence he is referring to himself possibly calling himself: Iron (adjective) Alexander.
Just a thought....
7 hrs
Daniela McKeeby
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proffer
One of the meanings is to bear, bring [with one], proffer. Another one is to bring [into publicity], to show, present. Although both (proffer, present)fit in the phrase, I think that proffer is more probable.
Smith and Lockwood Latin- English Dictionary
Smith and Lockwood Latin- English Dictionary
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David Wigtil
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Pseudo-Latin phrase: "who will make you for Alessandro"
LITERARY ALLUSIONS:
The "inscription" echoes two well-known phrases, 1) the "Hail Mary" prayer from Catholicism, and 2) ancient sentences inscribed on pottery, of the pattern: "Marcus me fecit" ("Marcus made me").
BAD GRAMMAR:
The first part of your text is bad Latin, the second part is a modern Romance construction -- but NOT Latin. In good Latin we would have seen several constructions altered:
"Ave Mariani, pictor celeberrime, qui te Lisandro (=Allesandro?) fecit (faciet?)"
- QUI: nominative for the subject.
- TE: accusative for the direct object.
- LISANDRO: dative for the beneficiary.
- FECIT in the perfect tense, or else FACIET in the future tense.
FUTURE TENSE?
The word FERRE' is likely a future, rather than a perfect or preterite: since Romance languages base their future tenses on old Latin infinitives, FERRE' sounds very much like "je ferai", "yo hare'", and the like.
--Loquamur
The "inscription" echoes two well-known phrases, 1) the "Hail Mary" prayer from Catholicism, and 2) ancient sentences inscribed on pottery, of the pattern: "Marcus me fecit" ("Marcus made me").
BAD GRAMMAR:
The first part of your text is bad Latin, the second part is a modern Romance construction -- but NOT Latin. In good Latin we would have seen several constructions altered:
"Ave Mariani, pictor celeberrime, qui te Lisandro (=Allesandro?) fecit (faciet?)"
- QUI: nominative for the subject.
- TE: accusative for the direct object.
- LISANDRO: dative for the beneficiary.
- FECIT in the perfect tense, or else FACIET in the future tense.
FUTURE TENSE?
The word FERRE' is likely a future, rather than a perfect or preterite: since Romance languages base their future tenses on old Latin infinitives, FERRE' sounds very much like "je ferai", "yo hare'", and the like.
--Loquamur
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